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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
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Trixie 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 13-May-2015 21:26:38
#461 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2090
From: Czech Republic

@wawa

Quote:
im not sure that when i registered at this site i was aware that it was exclusively dedicated to os4. there is nothing there to this day that suggests it.

There isn't. I've been registered here since 2003, and I don't remember AmigaWorld.net ever being promoted as exclusively dedicated to OS4. On the other hand, Amigans.net has been quite vocal about its pro-OS4 focus.

AmigaWorld is pretty much dedicated to all flavours.

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wawa 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 13-May-2015 22:37:04
#462 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@sundown

Quote:
If ppl bothered to look at the 'forums' link, they would see a section for each system, but ignored. Go post your "genuine amiga" questions there insead of in the os4 forum.


i do. but if you want users on a public forum to only be allowed to post in particular section then either lock their posting privileges according to systems their own or opinions they have, or simply detach forums dedicated to different systems from each other. this way you can enjoy your ghetto in peace. i have understood the bias behind amigans and i ceased to post there pretty quickly, no matter there is any mention on their site that it is os4 exclusive. i have no problem with that except that it poses as amiga site. it wasnt of much help anyway.

Quote:
Most NG users also have classics, I have a working A500/030 in storage & a working A4000T/060 that I still use & 2 NGs, different models, but all are "real" Amigas to me.


and i own os4 and what could be used as os4 system, remember? it just doesnt get much use that way these days.

Last edited by wawa on 13-May-2015 at 10:40 PM.

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wawa 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 13-May-2015 22:39:30
#463 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@TheBilgeRat

Quote:
Well, if we must be on topic, and since the title of this topic is "How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system", I'll throw my two cents in. The simple answer is you don't. Period. Not with open source. Not with ten or a hundred high-speed low drag developers who know every trick in the book and dream in assembler. Not with a 4Ghz FPGA soft core board for every miggy.


look up the original post and the poster. i think every off topic here is much more worth than staying on subject.

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itix 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 13-May-2015 22:53:29
#464 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Trixie

Quote:

There isn't. I've been registered here since 2003, and I don't remember AmigaWorld.net ever being promoted as exclusively dedicated to OS4. On the other hand, Amigans.net has been quite vocal about its pro-OS4 focus.

AmigaWorld is pretty much dedicated to all flavours.


AWN was not always so. In early years AWN was very very pro-OS4. If you didnt speak carefully you were banned. Sometimes entire threads disappeared without prior warning about the subject. But that was with the old gang.

Today ANW is virtally without moderation.

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TheBilgeRat 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 13-May-2015 22:54:05
#465 ]
Member
Joined: 20-May-2010
Posts: 36
From: Unknown

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@TheBilgeRat

Quote:
Well, if we must be on topic, and since the title of this topic is "How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system", I'll throw my two cents in. The simple answer is you don't. Period. Not with open source. Not with ten or a hundred high-speed low drag developers who know every trick in the book and dream in assembler. Not with a 4Ghz FPGA soft core board for every miggy.


look up the original post and the poster. i think every off topic here is much more worth than staying on subject.


Well, its certainly no worse than what thierry used to spam on the natami forums, but yeah...

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OlafS25 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 13-May-2015 23:15:14
#466 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6376
From: Unknown

@sundown

Hmmm one advice from someone you know

"Look in the mirror. Learn to discuss instead of argue"

Someone gave me this advice

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_Steve_ 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 0:34:38
#467 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6809
From: UK

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:

Even though I have a different point of view on certain things than many others I see no reason to not be allowed to come with my own views on things that have influence on my hobbies and interests. I reckon this is an Amiga computer forum dedicated the old Amiga operating system and it's Hardware so I can not see my posts are off topic at all.

Besides 1. I think to be open to both positive and negave criticism and views is a positive thing that can be learned from.

Besides 2. In my opinion the sub forums in "PowerPC/NextGen Amigas" is largely off tophic from the main topic and therefore should be moved down together under "Alt Amiga OS".

Besides 3. I don't think one can expect a thread of more than 400 post to be 100% on topic all the time and therefore some post could perhaps partly been under Amiga general, but that is stupid and not to mention a thread, what should I call it...... a thread like this is very likely to become like this, me think.


This particular forum area is OS4.X and WB4.X related (not classic Amiga unless in reference to running OS4.x/WB4.x on that hardware).


1) There is criticism, constructive criticism and then there is just outright negative posting. Effectively stating that a machine someone purchased and the OS it uses is less useful than a rock you just dragged in is neither constructive or helpful in any manner.

2) Considering that we have areas for Classic Amiga and OS1.x - 3.x, Next Gen Amiga (OS4.x+) and Alternative Amiga OS (MorphOS / Aros), why would anything related to OS4.x be lumped into the Alternative OS area? The topic was named simply because the classic hardware was able to run these alternative OS's but they are not AmigaOS.

3) No invariably threads wander a bit. We aim to keep it on topic as much as possibly and if it deviates, simply just start a new topic on the deviation in the relevant area. But there is no need to post on threads in OS4.x areas when the content is simply to annoy users of that OS choice and when the poster has no intention of owning or using the OS.

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Hillbillylitre 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 2:12:11
#468 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2015
Posts: 270
From: Unknown

@_Steve_

Quote:

_Steve_ wrote:
@Hillbillylitre
This particular forum area is OS4.X and WB4.X related (not classic Amiga unless in reference to running OS4.x/WB4.x on that hardware).


1) There is criticism, constructive criticism and then there is just outright negative posting. Effectively stating that a machine someone purchased and the OS it uses is less useful than a rock you just dragged in is neither constructive or helpful in any manner.

2) Considering that we have areas for Classic Amiga and OS1.x - 3.x, Next Gen Amiga (OS4.x+) and Alternative Amiga OS (MorphOS / Aros), why would anything related to OS4.x be lumped into the Alternative OS area? The topic was named simply because the classic hardware was able to run these alternative OS's but they are not AmigaOS.

3) No invariably threads wander a bit. We aim to keep it on topic as much as possibly and if it deviates, simply just start a new topic on the deviation in the relevant area. But there is no need to post on threads in OS4.x areas when the content is simply to annoy users of that OS choice and when the poster has no intention of owning or using the OS.

As you probably can see I like Amiga OS like the good eighty/nineties operating system it is.

If you had been able to read it in context you had perhaps realized that it was in my case AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 had been like a usless piece of rock inside my House.

If you can not grasp the reason for that, it is because my old Windows machine to only a small fraction of the cost of an OS4 system can do exactly the same as a OS4 system just enormously much better, plus an enormous amount more. So therefore had a OS4 machine like this been totally waste of space and complete useless and I should be paid for wasting space for something like that in favor of something else.

I like Amiga OS for what it is but if I should have a AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 system in the house all the system's problems I refer to must be fixed. Or in other words, it should be worth to have.

Constructive enough?

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kolla 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 2:50:20
#469 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 3064
From: Trondheim, Norway

How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system is very easy: Give AmigaOS leading features.

Btw - it seems like AWN started as a support site for #amigaworld on undernet.

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kolla 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 3:41:17
#470 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 3064
From: Trondheim, Norway

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
People do not use OS features, they use Software.


That is pretty general assumption. I do certainly make use of OS features of all OSes I use - multitasking, task management, networking etc. We are not all "most users".

[Quote]
Breaking any existing code to get memory protection what would the benefit? You would have a platform without content. If I understand him right he wants to do a kind "amigaish" Linux distribution.[/quote]

Not at all what I want, this the garbage answer I get every time I have tried to elaborate what I want, very few seem capable of grasping what a modern Amiga inspired OS would be. It would not be Linux, it would not be Amithlon, it would for sure not be any of the NG systems either.

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Hillbillylitre 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 4:32:42
#471 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2015
Posts: 270
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system is very easy: Give AmigaOS leading features.

They can also try to lower the prices to competitive prices..... I wonder how far down they have to go then BTW?

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Valiant 
Re: How to make Amiga OS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 5:06:38
#472 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2003
Posts: 1110
From: West of Eden, VT USA

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@Troels

Quote:
PPC has taken only one direction since Apple left the building and we should have seen the writing on the wall years ago. Radical changes could have been made before the X1000 was build but instead we got a prestige project no one can afford.


except that everybody who dared to mention it and similar issues, that have been mindlessly invested into, was labelled a troll. you can thank yourself for current outcome.


I use AmigaOS 4.1 on an X1000...

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kolla 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 7:32:16
#473 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 3064
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hillbillylitre

Lowering the prices would not at all make it leading in any way, shape or form. There are OSes available for free that are way more modern and feature rich than AmigaOS, and they too are not leading. All leading OSes are that because developers participate and keep up with standardisations. A leading feature is to be compatible and interoperable with the rest of the world, and it is a mighty long time since that was the case for AmigaOS.

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BigD 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 7:36:09
#474 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7349
From: UK

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:
I should be paid for wasting space for something like that in favor of something else.


There you go again. I really hope it's just been lost in translation but do you really expect to be paid by A-Eon or ACube to use their hardware because it would use up space in your home?! That is the weirdest suggestion ever!

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agami 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 8:19:55
#475 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1716
From: Melbourne, Australia

@TheBilgeRat

Love the handle, and your avatar/sigil is awesome.

Quote:
The simple answer is you don't.

Don't or can't?

Quote:
You will never beat microsoft for reliability (yes, reliability: unless you're thierry atheist), availability of good software, power of supported platforms, and price.

Microsoft Windows is not a leading OS in all computing endeavours. Not sure why you think AmigaOS needs to be a leading desktop OS?

Think of it this way: If in 2005 I asked in this or a Mac forum "How to make Mac OS X a leading operating system?" You or your evil Mac twin would try and shut my question down with a similar retort; Windows blah blah, Linux, blah blah, etc.

But for several years between 2008 and about 2011, OS X was a leading operating system, just not on desktops and notebooks. It was the leading smartphone and tablet OS. And it is still the leading tablet OS by usage and developer preference.

Quote:
What does AOS bring to the table? Absolutely nothing.

Oh ye of little vision. Your evil twin might have asked/stated the same about Mac OS X in 2005. The key thing to remember is the old saying "If Mohammed will not go to the mountain, you bring the mountain to Mohammed".

I think @kolla summed it up nicely in this line
Quote:
Give AmigaOS leading features.

I know it's hard to see it but AmigaOS still has some mojo left in it to support "leading features". It's not the only one in this regard, BeOS/Haiku has some mojo too.

"And what's to stop Microsoft or Apple or Google from copying your leading features?" my own evil twin asks.
Absolutely nothing. I may have some patents in place but they'll just pay my fee and go on implementing the new features.

But for a couple of sweet glorious years or so, AmigaOS would be a leading operating system.

Last edited by agami on 14-May-2015 at 08:24 AM.

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Leo 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 9:12:24
#476 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1597
From: Unknown

Quote:
How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system is very easy: Give AmigaOS leading features.

First: leading what ? Mobile ? Desktop ? Server ? Hobby ? Games ?
You can't be all at the same time, although leading OS in these areas share lots of things, that AOS does not have: SMP, memory protection, security (address randomization, data area protection,..)
Then, and only then (I have yet to see an answer to this. Even Hyperion doesn't seem to know their target) you wonder how. And just like you don't make win nt with a dos kernel, you don't make macosx using a classic kernel, you don't make a leading os with 30 years old exec kernel.
Oh did I mention which processor you choose ? No, because your leading OS, like Linux, MacOSX, WinNT should run on anything and be easily portable. MacOS classic wasn't, DOS wasn't, OS4 isn't.
First things first...
Let's say you answer these questions and magically end up with a modern OS. Remember that it's not enough. Back then BeOS had most modern features, ran on the two mainstream desktop computers, and yet died in a few months. This was 1997: windows was not as strong as it is now, MacOSX did not exist, and Linux wasn't mature yet. Not talking about the devices that were less diverse: you didn't have mobile phones,.. So it would have been easier. Today you have MacosX/iOS, Linux that's everywhere, free, open source and mature-enough, and Windows that has been made to run on anything from phones to holo Lena...
If you answered all these questions, there's only one answer: leading your very own little community is already a good thing.
The question is: does it mean you have to be stuck in 1985 and on 68k (or ppc) ? Because no matter which "NG" OS you choose, you get the same old Exec base, the same limitations (I know qwark is more modern but MorphOS is currently only A box, not Qbox.. And don't start with AROS SMP experiments). That's not what I call a next generation AOS.. Just like running classic OS on an iPhone wouldn't make it MacOSX.. Just like running MSDOS on a surface would not make it Windows 10. Even though you could run Quake 3...

Last edited by Leo on 14-May-2015 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 14-May-2015 at 09:47 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 14-May-2015 at 09:40 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 9:17:22
#477 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6376
From: Unknown

@kolla

ok I understood you wrong and you want something new, neither a modernized amiga-based system nor Linux

Then do it or at least start with it

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kolla 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 9:20:09
#478 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 3064
From: Trondheim, Norway

@agami

OSX (and iOS) in all its incarnations since NeXTStep back in the 80ies, is a modern operating system, it was in 2005 and it is now. In comparison, AmigaOS is not, and really never was. Yes, Haiku has mojo, it has many features the modern world requires, it has almost everything AmigaOS lacks.

Apart from providing a certain desktop experience, AmigaOS has no use case. None, whatsoever.

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kolla 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 9:34:43
#479 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 3064
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Leo

Cheers for summing up the basic features that AmigaOS so desperatly needs if it is ever to become leading in any niche, no matter how narrow.

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kolla 
Re: How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?
Posted on 14-May-2015 9:50:53
#480 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 3064
From: Trondheim, Norway

@OlafS25

"Modernized Amiga based system" is an oxymoron. What Amiga users need, and should want from "the mother company", is a modern implementation of the AmigaOS user experience, it is fully possible to reimplement everything users identifies as "AmigaOS" in a modern architecture. For developers it would be a totally different beast of course, but it would also be much easier to port to, since it would share APIs and common standards with other modern OSes.

Why am I not busy implementing this? Because I have other things in life I have greater passion for, but that does not mean I can not have oppinions.

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