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      /  New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 11:26:52
#561 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

Anyway A-Eon now own DvPlayer and Tunenet. Two programs that would be affected by the FPU emulation speed. So special SPE floating point versions of these should not be a problem.
Most other type of programs should not be affected based on the Linux exprience .


Last edited by Spectre660 on 19-Oct-2015 at 11:28 AM.

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Seiya 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 11:31:02
#562 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1416
From: Italia

@Spectre660
But games and computers/consoles emulation could be have several problems with this SPE unit.


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eder 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:43:49
#563 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 280
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

How can something be slow, yet not tested

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:49:14
#564 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Spectre660

Quote:
special SPE floating point versions...


So we can expect some specialized binaries?

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:50:06
#565 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

@eder

in software you can also test parts of it, f.e. you can define test cases that run against routines to see if there are problems. As I understand it not yet integrated in AmigaOS because AmigaOS is still not running on the hardware.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 19-Oct-2015 at 12:51 PM.

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:50:21
#566 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@eder

they have developed the method that they expect to work, yet its expected to be slow. however the developer, or rather managing director, if thats his correct title, hopes it will be possible to accelerate it once the osruns and the patch is actually implemented.

you can read his statement olaf linked to. its quite contrary to "there us no problem os4 already works on the board in question" in my opinion.

Last edited by wawa on 19-Oct-2015 at 12:51 PM.

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eder 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 13:12:56
#567 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 280
From: Unknown

@wawa

So, if/ when this is sorted out and its on par with Sam 460 at 500 . This is going to be a bargain in OS4 terms ?

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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 13:18:07
#568 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

@wawa

The "no problem os4 already woks on the board" did not come from Hyperion Management or AmigaOS developers .

It may have been assumed by those saying this because AmigaOS developers have had boards for several months.

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@eder

they have developed the method that they expect to work, yet its expected to be slow. however the developer, or rather managing director, if thats his correct title, hopes it will be possible to accelerate it once the osruns and the patch is actually implemented.

you can read his statement olaf linked to. its quite contrary to "there us no problem os4 already works on the board in question" in my opinion.

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Spectre660 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 13:20:12
#569 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

@iggy

Speculation on my part .

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@Spectre660

Quote:
special SPE floating point versions...


So we can expect some specialized binaries?

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Zylesea 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 14:14:56
#570 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2176
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:
@iggy

Speculation on my part .

Quote:

iggy wrote:
@Spectre660

[quote]special SPE floating point versions...


So we can expect some specialized binaries?

According to HyperionMP your speculation is wrong

Quote:

HyperionMP:
So no need to either recompile the OS (the kernel is obviously always specific for a certain CPU) or any applications.

Last edited by Zylesea on 19-Oct-2015 at 02:15 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 14:18:17
#571 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4411
From: Portsmouth England

@Zylesea

'No need to' is not the same as 'cannot benefit from'.

There is no need to compile altivec binaries for example.

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 14:57:39
#572 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Spectre660

Quote:
Speculation on my part .


Oh, I appreciate your candor.
In some cases it would be preferable.
And using the non-standard fpu incorporated into the e500v2 ought to be a better solution for software that needs an fpu than emulating the standard unit.

At this point, I'm reserving further judgement.
A-eon invested the funds and the time creating this board, its going to happen.
So, if its price is right and its performance is a least on par with the Samantha, then it was a good investment.

And nothing precludes A-eon from further introductions.
After all, the e5500 core I would appear to be so fond of is a dead end.
So while I would have preferred a T10XX solution, neither that core or the e500 will be developed further.
Only the e6500 core is shown in current roadmaps of future introductions.

We have the X5000, and hopefully one day we may even see an e6500 cored cpu in its successor.

In any case, PPCs ought to be viable for at least 5-10 years, and I'm extremely fond of this ISA...so, OK.

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 16:16:55
#573 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:
@wawa

The "no problem os4 already woks on the board" did not come from Hyperion Management or AmigaOS developers .

It may have been assumed by those saying this because AmigaOS developers have had boards for several months.


right (post #466 here):
Quote:
Emulation of FPU instructions will be handled transparently without significant impact on performance. So no need to either recompile the OS (the kernel is obviously always specific for a certain CPU) or any applications.


you dont even need to speak it out yourself. people will read from your lips, whatever they wish for, and fill in the blanks as facts. and then all is fine again (post #468):

Quote:
Thread over :D


;)

Last edited by wawa on 19-Oct-2015 at 04:17 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 19:19:18
#574 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@OnlyMe

Welcome!

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cdimauro 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 21:23:33
#575 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote:
Anyway A-Eon now own DvPlayer and Tunenet. Two programs that would be affected by the FPU emulation speed. So special SPE floating point versions of these should not be a problem.

In this case you need that the kernel supports the 64-bit wide registers of the e500v2, which requires some work.

This also slows down the task switching and the interrupts handling (at least), in general (so not only for the "SPE application").

Quote:
Most other type of programs should not be affected based on the Linux exprience .

What's your Linux experience? Have you used Debian PowerPC (so, NOT the version with SPE unit support)?


@Seiya

Quote:

Seiya wrote:
@Spectre660
But games and computers/consoles emulation could be have several problems with this SPE unit.

Only slowdowns, but they can run without any other problem, since the FPU (and "string" instructions) emulation is totally transparent to the existing software.

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Everblue 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 21:24:23
#576 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 641
From: Amigaland

I have asked ACube on their Facebook page about the Sam460CR and they told me they have no intention of stopping its production.

Are we sure ACube are involved with A1222?

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 21:34:07
#577 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Everblue

they might not have an "intention" but if they ocassionally do a 50 units run and the other board will be 10 times more in one run as apparently announced, what will effectively be the outcome? any thoughts? ;)

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tlosm 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 21:34:45
#578 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2702
From: Amiga land

@cdimauro

Quote:
What's your Linux experience? Have you used Debian PowerPC (so, NOT the version with SPE unit support)?


Belive me Spectre660 have more experience than you with linux PPC and PowerPc ...

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tlosm 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 21:37:33
#579 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2702
From: Amiga land

@Everblue

Why acube have to stop a production to a motherboard for sure less expensive compared the Tabor?
440 will exit from the scene totally and 460cr will be the entry machine

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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cdimauro 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 19-Oct-2015 21:49:12
#580 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
What's your Linux experience? Have you used Debian PowerPC (so, NOT the version with SPE unit support)?


Belive me Spectre660 have more experience than you with linux PPC and PowerPc ...

Of course: I've ZERO experience with both.

BTW, there's no need to have experience to discuss about some technical stuff. The FPU (and string instructions) emulation drops down the performance, and it's quite obvious if you know how it works.

The only way to avoid it is to have ad-hoc binaries that natively use the SPE unit (but this require some changes to the o.s., which slows down a bit the execution for all applications).

For 68K FPU emulation it isn't a big problem, because the JIT can be reworked to directly generate SPE instructions, but this requires a consistent change of Pentunia, since it's also written in assembly.

Anyway, I've asked for some information.

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