In all fairness I see the need for a cheap PPC version.

Not everyone require tons of horsepower to do their day to day requirements.

Up to the last few years, I was somewhat of a gamer, and got a i7 cpu+decent overall hardware.
Lately the ONLY thing I use my computer for is Libreoffice, VLC, ComputerBasedTraining software and youtube. Neither which require tons of horsepower to be useful.

If it wasnt for the dependancies required to run the CBTs I could see myself be covered by running AOS4.x, A.L.I.C.E or even Vampire (AOS3x/AROS).

Ive given up on mainstream media, and subscribe to youtube/webbased newsproviders, so this is semi critical sadly.

LibreOffice and VLC requirements can be somewhat covered by similar software on either platforms.

So cheap, PPC and semilow performance isnt a dealbreaker, but the driversupport probarly is.
Even the current available AOS4x hardware doesnt have enough drivers to even get close fully utilize the available hardware.
Cheap entrylevel PPC hardware COULD increase driver development.

The Vampire seems to have vitalized part of the classic community (tho some have no intrest as seen in a pouet thread on the topic), and I guess there is an argument for the same to happen with cheap PPC hardware, even lowish performance.

@Overflow

why do you think cheap PPC board would solve problem of missing driver support for PPC?

@OlafS25

Quote:

why do you think cheap PPC board would solve problem of missing driver support for PPC?

More boards sold = more money for hardware producer = more money for driver developers.


To be fair, Tabor shares (probably) most SoC features with Cyrus, which is one of few good points of this design.

@OlafS25

I dont think it will.

But its the best chance I guess.

More users means more money flow that COULD translate into more development.
Even without the moneycomponent, more users usually means some increase in activity.

Can just point to Vampire to prove that.

But that effort is driven by a very strongwilled bunch of people with the knowhow to do so, across 6-7 years.
Now, as the Vampires actually materialize, the rippleeffects are starting to show rather quickly (in amigaterms).

You could argue that Trevor tries to something similar, but the entrylevel price for PPC has dampened those ripples severly (imho). So a cheap PPC could salvage this. Or it might be too late since so many of us are focusing 100% on Vampire now while supplimenting our NG needs with mainstream computers.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @OlafS25 [quote]To be fair, Tabor shares (probably) most SoC features with Cyrus, which is one of few good points of this design.

I don´t think so. It is a different board which requires different drivers and porting-work (apart from the CPU).

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@AP

Quote:

I don´t think so. It is a different board which requires different drivers and porting-work (apart from the CPU).

I don´t know, if late Freescale used different components (for Ethernet, USB, SATA etc.) on various SoCs, but I find this not much probable.

@Overflow

Quote:

You could argue that Trevor tries to something similar, but the entrylevel price for PPC has dampened those ripples severly (imho). So a cheap PPC could salvage this. Or it might be too late since so many of us are focusing 100% on Vampire now while supplimenting our NG needs with mainstream computers.

Which all points to the fact that those maintaining the platform have limited vision to capitalize on it.

Every time a suggestion is made for a new product it's either dismissed or loses momentum because people jump to conclusions about it being too expensive, not powerful enough, too limited in potential sales, not supported by Hyperion, not backed by A-EON, not of interest to AmigaOS/AROS/MorphOS users etc.

The recurring theme here is that there is very little dialogue with the established players and almost no effort to bring together the Amiga variants to move things forward.

There really needs to be an Open Amiga consortium.

@Overflow

Quote:

More users means more money flow that COULD translate into more development.

the os4fe final "classic" edition seems to have been an overwhelming success in comparison to other platforms. yet, what support for a given target has that triggered? right: none. on the contrary, it triggered further stubborn resistance to support this particular platform. neither apparently has the developer who made that possible seen any kind of support, neither intellectual nor monetary, from the "company" that cashes up on it for free. on the contrary, the fees paid by trusty customer ship that does it in fact to "support the platform" have been collected, but the requests for rather insignificant gestures of support either refused or ignored.

so, how do you reason would translate to invest further similar funding in some direction? the logical induction may provide some preliminary answers here.

@Overflow

Quote:

Now, as the Vampires actually materialize, the rippleeffects are starting to show rather quickly (in amigaterms). You could argue that Trevor tries to something similar,

i wouldnt. the philosophy behind these projects is completely different. the results of vampire hype are not applicable on what has been an effort to create a hype around the aeon products. e needs to distinguish a self building up notion form a failed attempt. one important factor is flexibility and ability to correct the course. a small simple unit, almost possible to be assembled home by hand, can be guided this way rather easily. a huge complicated machine, involving huge investments and set in stone design up front doesnt offer this.

apollo/vampire people have proven to have alas a rather unique perspective that may lead them to success. i dont expect that of many parties in this community. certainly not of os4 one.

@ne_one

Quote:

There really needs to be an Open Amiga consortium.

in fact, if anything like this is possible, it is aros. you cant count on anybody that thinks he controls the situation yet, so you wont have these people joining in till is too late.

as example, i have offered some insight into the current aros state for the vampire team, that has been met with a lot of justified criticism. within few days many of the critical issues have either been fixed or are being worked on, and that by least expected people. i have not had a chance to publish the results yet, but lets just try something like that with some less open camp.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @pavlor fun with a low-power PPC board? For me not... but everybody can do what he wants but here I answered on Raffaele writing he would not buy "obsolete hardware" and my answer was that his PPC board is obsolete hardware either so that is no criterium here. It is hobby...[/quote In my opinion a motherboard based on T2080 with 1 max 2 PCI-E 3.0 slots plus other 2 PCI classic slots, 8, or 12 GB RAM DDR3, audio 7.1, 2 ports USB tyoe 3 and 4 USB type 2, if could be sold at 399 is nothing than obsolete and competing face to face with i3 and i5! @wawa Quote: wawa wrote: @Raffaele [quote] Count randomly (starting from a year, a year ago up today on Amiga forums) how many people partecipated the discussions and how many reads received the topics... It is a good thermometer of our community situation. yes.this forum is fading away, as other os4 centric sites, everybody can verify that by themselves. but it was foreseeable. posting more random fantasies wont make it appear more alive. instead check out german a1k or british eab or other actually mostly amiga related forums, perhaps you can join amibay or even go to polish ppa, inclusive its strong morphos fraction. also apollo irc is quite lively. you just need to know where to look.

Are you kidding? Take a look at sites like amiganews.de... There is one fifth traffic than one or two years ago.
How you can compare dedicated Amiga sites like eab or ppa.pl that generate a traffic of their own as long as one is specialistic, and the other is polish national reference for Amigans, along with news sites that are a real indicator of the situation?

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @Raffaele not to offend you, but perhaps you should really stand back for a moment and try to take on your life situation instead making bold demands on forums just because you consider using windows humiliating for some reason.

Humiliated, offended, enraged... What words you will use for an Operating System that spies us and transmits even informations of what software you are runnibpng to Microsoft?

Have you ever explored Windows 10 Settings -> Privacy section of Win settings? THERE ARE 13 SCREENS... THIRTEEN SCREENS full of settings to exclude to get back your privacy. And it not even sufficient.
If some software wants, it could reissue again the settings you excluded.. You can only fight with software like Malwarebytes AntiBeacon to be sure you are not sending sensible data to Microsoft.

And switching back to Windows 8 or 7 it is not even a soultion as Microsoft introduced these sneakily spying hidden services to elder operating system too...

Or you decide remain naked on the web renouncing using update services of Windows and security updates, or you must accept Microsoft mafia being spied. I call this humiliating or worst... Frustrating.

Yes, frustrating, as you are forced running many times AntiBeacon at any updateg, to avoid your sensible data being collected and used for other people's purposes.

@Pleng

Quote:

Pleng wrote: @Raffaele Quote: Because it is very humiliating use those sh** Operating Systems like Windows. I know, right. Every day I curse the fact that there doesn't seem to be a single piece of software that can completely bring down my Windows install. I hate the fact that the applications I'm using are spreading their tasks across all 8 of my cores, and restricting themselves while restricting themselves to their own protected memory space. Having out-of-the box support for any peripheral that I buy is also a complete PITA. Windows is truly a "sh**" operating system.

If you are trying making some humor you failed miserably as we are not talking of performances, but of hidden services of Windows sneakily spying you, collecting your data and selling it to third parties without your consent.

Continue spread your threads on eight core and get the blame on yourself if you don't find enraged or humiliated by a firm that collect your sensibile data and monitoring your behaviour without your consent.

Even your password is stolen and Microsoft collect backup of it on cloud ONE-DRIVE.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

Ladies and gentlemen. Sanity has left the building....

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Raffaele not to offend you either but talking about obsolete hardware and wanting a slow (in todays terms) low-cost PPC board? I talk about hobby and fun platform for the rest everybody has a PC or Mac already. If you/z want a serious platform and have limited money buy a used PC. Tabor or this board would not be the solution for you

I have a PC too but that's does not pleases me. I had Windows XP, Windows 7 and Kubuntu Linux innstalled on multiple partitions ion 2 x 1 Terabyte harddisks.

But I desire a performant PPC at a decent price. I do not want any Tabor. Tabor is actually suitable only for Linux. AmigaOSvexperience in the end is limited and it does not support all the hardware features of the morherboard... And as someone already pointed, MorphOS does not even run on it.

Why the hell I should WASTE my money on a system that has not even ALTIVEC on it, when i3 and i5 for a fraction of price offer SSD version 4 counterpart of Altivec on Intel, and MORE they feature also Streaming SIMD instructions set that enhance even experience of playing videos?

Please don't offend mine or your intelligence suggesting Tabor as a viable solution.

I want PPC processor competing in a head to head with i3 or i5, at decent price!

If I surf Ebay offers, I can build a complete LGA 1151 socket motherboard solution even with i7 for more of less than 200 euro!

Well I want a T2080 based motherboard for 299 max 399 euro.

Do I desire the moon?

Remember that any revolution started from people who were unsatisfied with their present situation and that want to change it.

I want to change it for sure!

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Rose

Quote:

Rose wrote: Ladies and gentlemen. Sanity has left the building....

If you think so... Yes sanity has left Microsoft Windows 10 building...

And for your information you can read dozillions info sites on the web reporting it

http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10-doesnt-offer-much-privacy-by-default-heres-how-to-fix-it/

(This is just the first ones I cut and copied by chance... I think that few examples fits it all...)

And remember that even excluding these issues from settings it does not exclude hidden services contiunuing collecting data about you and your preferences, your behaviour, software you used.

If you want to get rid of all these little Microsoft spies, you need to run dedicated software like Safer Networking AntiBeacon and re-run it at any new scheduled update of Windows.

https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

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_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

then buy X5000 that is also official supported by MorphOS

of course it will be expensive compared to comparable hardware but if you want custom hardware based on PPC you must be willing to pay for it

wanting cheap PPC custom boards is impossible, someone has to pay for the development and at the end it is calculated in the price. And if sales are low (and here we talk in my view of sales in the hundreds) then the calculated price is high or someone has to take losses. The world is unfair I know.

What you dream of is impossible... perhaps 10 years ago with much more users and thus potential buyers but not today in 2016. World has moved on, today it is either ARM or AMD64 (X64). A raspberry class hardware more than 10x as expensive (and that would be cheap) is impossible to sell today except for some freaks.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Are you kidding? Take a look at sites like amiganews.de... There is one fifth traffic than one or two years ago.

if you say so. you know this forum never has been very lively. however as long as there were some stupid os4 announcements people were fighting over it in the comment section, which in turn generated some additional traffic, i trust. now, since there isnt much of these fairy tales being spread any more, the level of traffic returned to a reasonable level. im member of this site and i have been taking part in it, so i guess know what im talking about, i simply dont comment so much on obvious stupidities, but it doesnt mean that ive left.

Quote:

How you can compare dedicated Amiga sites like eab or ppa.pl that generate a traffic of their own as long as one is specialistic, and the other is polish national reference for Amigans, along with news sites that are a real indicator of the situation?

i think dedicated amiga sites are good indicator of amiga situation. of course if you are only interested in the situation on os4 profiled sites, then you must refer only to these, and te situation there is obviously not that good. but its someone elses problem.

Last edited by wawa on 21-Mar-2016 at 11:01 AM.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Remember that any revolution started from people who were unsatisfied with their present situation and that want to change it.

and you think that you out of millions of these humiliated users have the right idea to avoid internet espionage, namely to switch to cheap ppc hardware, which is obviously your proposal? especially running an os that doesnt offer any security features whatsoever and if it currently appears secure by obsolescence, it certainly would become a sitting duck as soon as it gained any bit of popularity.

you want to create a wholly new platform to compete with x86/windows along with the software pool it needs, but yet all you are apparently able to contribute to it are rather uninformed postings on forums. that wont go anywhere.. why dont you simply use linux instaed?

@wawa

Quote:

you want to create a wholly new platform to compete with x86/windows along with the software pool it needs

For some reason it seems to be surprise for True Amigans that people in general don't think they are using the operating system but software on the operating system. It's like that people want to get shit done instead of customizing desktop and taking screenshots about it. Weird huh?

@wawa

Quote:

in fact, if anything like this is possible, it is aros

It is definitely one good example (among many) of how third party initiatives can make great strides with limited resources.

The biggest problem is the established players do next to nothing to encourage opportunities.

Imagine someone with investment potential considers bankrolling a new Amiga product.

So they take a look at the most prominent sites:

- Amiga: PHP errors, not one link to a site of an active licensee, no recent activity
- Hyperion: janky domain, mish-mash of directions, about page is 50% legal disclaimer (seriously?)

And that's just what people see from the outside. It's a gong show.

@ne_one

established players.. errmm.. who? googling "amiga" i come across a number of in this context valid references, such as wikipedia articles or links to a number of known sites and forums. though, i have not spotted hyperion there, i wonder who would ever
navigate to their site or forum, when seeking information about amiga computers. and rightfully so.