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      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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PosterThread
Srtest 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 16:11:34
#1721 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 233
From: Israel, Haderah

@OlafS25

"Tabor is retro too..."

Just like Aros as a leading nowhere linux branch, based on an affiliation with the name Amiga which hadn't meant something for a long time. All those Amiga wannabe derivatives are a relic occupation as well...

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 16:44:48
#1722 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4857
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@BigD

yes it is fun...

so to say what would have happened if Commodore and Motorala would have continued. Of course part of the retro trend.

Funnily you are praising Tabor that is not offering much more than Raspberry PI for much more money and with less power than most smartphones. Tabor is retro too...


I am not praising something that I haven't seen yet nor do I have any idea WHEN it will be released so cannot say whether it will steal the limelight from the Vampire Stand Alone. However, I simply point out that it will have a market. That is a given.

Last edited by BigD on 17-Jun-2019 at 04:46 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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ferrels 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 17:17:24
#1723 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 815
From: Arizona

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
vampire still has not MMU, 3D, and compatible FPU. There are good reasons to buy Amiga NG.


You obviously haven't been following the Vampire's development. It's had a 100% compatible FPU for quite some time. It has an MMU but Gunnar hasn't provided anyone with the details on how to take advantage of it....and no one really cares because more than 99.9% of classic Amiga software never used the MMU. As for 3D, Gunnar announced some months ago that the Apollo team was developing 3D capabilities for the Vampire that at a high level looks much like the 3DFX VooDoo.

Having owned a PPC system that ran OS4, I'd choose a Vampire any day over one of the "new" OS4 systems. At least the Vampire is actively developed and the Apollo team has delivered on every promise they've made.....OS4 was still-born when it was released and none of the features promised by Hyperion ever materialized, such as SMP, 64-bit addressing, multi-user support, office productivity suite, modern web browser, etc, etc....

OS4 systems were handicapped the day they were released, by an OS that shares feature parity with Windows 98 and PPC CPU's that were already end-of-life when they were chosen for use on said systems. Even the X5000 performs on par with x86 systems from around 2006. The price structure for NG Amigas is also absurd. NG Amigans are the only people I know who are willing to pay boutique prices for obsolete hardware, a woefully obsolete OS, and then go around harping about how advanced their "new" system is.

There is nothing new about ANY NG Amiga...not the OS and not the CPU or graphics subsystem either. Out of the box, OS4's graphics are stuck in 2003 and even with the graphics enhancer packs, you get graphics from around 2006-2008 with very few apps that can even take advantage of 3D. Even the latest graphics cards that can be used in NG Amigas are around 5 years old or older.

At least Vampire users know from the outset that they're buying a retro system for the sake of retro computing. NG Amiga users mistakenly believe they're getting bleeding edge hardware and software but instead get a retro system the mimics the features of Windows 98 at 2019 boutique prices.

So if you have good reasons to buy an OS4 system, they must be highly subjective, because I can't find any rational reasons to invest once again in a system that runs OS4. I can find plenty of reasons for buying a Vampire, nostalgia for one, price being the other when compared to the cost of an NG PPC Amiga.

Last edited by ferrels on 17-Jun-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 17-Jun-2019 at 05:28 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 17-Jun-2019 at 05:22 PM.

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J'Bar 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 18:16:53
#1724 ]
Member
Joined: 20-Feb-2010
Posts: 79
From: Unknown

@ferrels

OUCH!

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bison 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 20:14:43
#1725 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1353
From: N-Space

@ferrels

The light comes on! You're a Vampire partisan. I didn't know that. I was beginning to think that you just enjoyed being miserable about everything.

Have fun with your Vampire. I wouldn't mind having one myself, but it's not a high priority, so I will probably abstain.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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hUMUNGUs 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 20:29:26
#1726 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Nov-2012
Posts: 37
From: Norway

@ferrels

Yeah baby !! Well put.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 20:56:57
#1727 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8984
From: Unknown

@ferrels

There are no rational reasons to buy any Amiga related hardware. Period.


It is simply hobby we all like, albeit in different directions.

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 21:55:56
#1728 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4857
From: UK

@ferrels

Quote:
Even the X5000 performs on par with x86 systems from around 2006. The price structure for NG Amigas is also absurd. NG Amigans are the only people I know who are willing to pay boutique prices for obsolete hardware, a woefully obsolete OS, and then go around harping about how advanced their "new" system is.


No one is under any illusion about where Amiga NG is at IMHO. 'New' is a relative term; if it's new to the individual and recently released then it's new Amiga NG hardware IMHO! PC development has stagnated following Moore's Law ceasing to hold true and people can make do with less than bleeding edge hardware quite happily these days (look at all the iMac models with 'mobile' GPUs that fly off the shelves).

If OS4.x and AmigaOne machines are new and modern enough to be useful and they are fun for Amigans and people interested in the OS / unique Amiga software then the NG machines WILL find a market. The browser issue is a small problem by you can browse the web on the phone in your pocket in the modern world! As long as you have access to Aminet and Amistore then you're golden as far as AmigaNG web access is concerned.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 22:45:04
#1729 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5481
From: Unknown

@Srtest

Linux?

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 22:48:10
#1730 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5481
From: Unknown

@BigD

both products are very different and have not much in common. I do not think they affect each other very much except the question if interested people can buy both or not.

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Rose 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jun-2019 23:24:17
#1731 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Funnily you are praising Tabor that is not offering much more than Raspberry PI for much more money and with less power than most smartphones. Tabor is retro too...


Funnily enough. Tabor is par with Rasperry Pi CPU wise when using native code and IF both cores are being used.

Last edited by Rose on 17-Jun-2019 at 11:25 PM.

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BSzili 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 18-Jun-2019 7:43:29
#1732 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

It's ironic that he calls AROS a Linux distro, considering that OS4 has more in common with Linux than any other Amiga-like OS (shared objects, virtual memory, etc.), and a lot of OS4 hardware has Linux-derived firmwares. But hey, AROS uses GRUB, so it's Linux

_________________
I see the jimmies have been rustled.

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bennymee 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 18-Jun-2019 7:48:08
#1733 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 508
From: Netherlands

@Rose

Tabor on par with the Pi, then the Pi is also retro ;)

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 18-Jun-2019 8:28:20
#1734 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5481
From: Unknown

@BSzili



It shows the competence...

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ferrels 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 18-Jun-2019 9:34:08
#1735 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 815
From: Arizona

@Srtest

Quote:
Just like Aros as a leading nowhere linux branch...


AROS has absolutely nothing to do with Linux. There are AROS builds for 68K, ARM, and x86_64 and none of them were derived from Linux nor do they borrow from Linux. Are you referring to the Linux-hosted version of AROS? That is AROS running on top of Linux. Michal has been working on ARIX which is a derivative of AROS but yet again, it is AROS running on top of a Linux kernel with most of the *nix bits removed.

AROS is a re-implementation of the AmigaOS 3.1 API for those other hardware platforms, and as such, has nothing in common with Linux. It was written from scratch from the ground up.

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Rose 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 12:42:26
#1736 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@BSzili



It shows the competence...


Amiga! - Because having a clue is trolling!

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tlosm 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 15:41:59
#1737 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2647
From: Amiga land

@Rose

Sorry the PI is better .. have 4 cores, prize 10 times less then the tabor and overall speed is equal

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 16:03:58
#1738 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1199
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ferrels

Quote:

It's had a 100% compatible FPU for quite some time.

For years, there was a 100% compatible FPU around already before v2 was released... part of the point with v2 was to fit this 100% FPU, but then...

Oh you mean the latest incarnation of the 100% compatible FPU?
I have yet to see it demonstrated as 100% compatible.

Quote:
It has an MMU but Gunnar hasn't provided anyone with the details on how to take advantage of it....and no one really cares because more than 99.9% of classic Amiga software never used the MMU.


"99.9% of classic Amiga software never used the FPU" was the original quote here, for the MMU it was "no Amiga users need MMU, and developers should use the MPU, we will provide the tools", and since then, the team has provided plenty of tools, and all info regarding how to use the MPU has been well and openly documented, and all developer software for Amiga have been updated to support the MPU.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

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ferrels 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 16:27:17
#1739 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 815
From: Arizona

@kolla

Quote:
I have yet to see it demonstrated as 100% compatible.


Well, if you didn't manage to get yourself banned from every account you created over at the Apollo Forums then you might be more "aware".

Your crusades against Gunnar and the Vampire always reach absurd levels no matter the forum and no matter which profile you use.

And if you're waiting for a 100% solution for anything, you're gonna die waiting because even across classic Amigas there was enough variation in hardware that there was less than 100% compatibility across all those models, so please stop it with all the anti-Vampire rhetoric. We've heard it ad nauseum here, and at every other forum where you lurk or have lurked. The only complaints in regard to the latest FPU come from the demo scene. The latest FPU runs nearly every demo and whenever the team runs across one that's problematic, they have a fix usually within days.

You should seek some professional help in regard to your obsessive compulsive disorder. Your constant attacks against anything Vampire could be characterized as stalking. Especially when you get banned in a particular forum and then create shill accounts just so that you can continue your attacks.

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megol 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jun-2019 17:59:23
#1740 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:

ferrels wrote:
@kolla

Quote:
I have yet to see it demonstrated as 100% compatible.


Well, if you didn't manage to get yourself banned from every account you created over at the Apollo Forums then you might be more "aware".

An attack of the person rather than the argument. Understandable with your definition of compatible below...

Quote:

Your crusades against Gunnar and the Vampire always reach absurd levels no matter the forum and no matter which profile you use.

Well he isn't too positive but often correct. I'd take correct over positive.

Quote:

And if you're waiting for a 100% solution for anything, you're gonna die waiting because even across classic Amigas there was enough variation in hardware that there was less than 100% compatibility across all those models, so please stop it with all the anti-Vampire rhetoric. We've heard it ad nauseum here, and at every other forum where you lurk or have lurked. The only complaints in regard to the latest FPU come from the demo scene. The latest FPU runs nearly every demo and whenever the team runs across one that's problematic, they have a fix usually within days.

Non sequitur. If the latest FPU ran each demo correctly wouldn't matter when the goal is 100% compatibility. If the project was done right there would be a set of tests that could tell if it was compatible without running actual software, if the project maintainer was honest he'd not make claims that aren't true. Which he has. Repeatedly.

Is the FPU capable of correctly rounded extended precision for all operations?

Quote:

You should seek some professional help in regard to your obsessive compulsive disorder. Your constant attacks against anything Vampire could be characterized as stalking. Especially when you get banned in a particular forum and then create shill accounts just so that you can continue your attacks.

And yet he is often right. If your claim of ban evasion is true it's a bit problematic however remember that the Apollo community is a sect like closed group where problems are dealt with by deleting threads. I know what I consider more reprehensible.

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