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      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 11:06:12
#1861 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5532
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

why is PPC Amiga more Amiga than a reimplementation of the original amiga

You might say PPC is faster than FPGA but more amiga?

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nikosidis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 12:58:17
#1862 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 890
From: Norway, Oslo

@ppcamiga1

For how long will PPC be faster than 68k. FPGA might be much faster in the future.
It is very limited what is released for PPC Amiga and at the same time it does not
keep up with todays standards. The hardware is way to expensive.
That said CPU power are not something you nessessary need.
Looking at all the 68k amiga games ever made you can count on one hand the games
that need more than standard Amiga 1200/020 running 14MHz.

Where are the demanding apps. you like to use your amiga for playing Quake 3, crappy
internet browsing or video, media player?
I know there are some nice emulators and some games but it is very limited. For the time PPC been out for both for Amiga and MorphOS you must understand it will never be a success.




Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 01:12 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 01:05 PM.

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ErikBauer 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 13:41:38
#1863 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1122
From: Italy

I just miss the times when this forum was better moderated.
Look at this thread: it should talk about Vampire News and yet, it is full of offtopic discussion of whether the Vampire and its 080 are more or less Amiga than a PPC Amiga One, unmotivated and irrationale hating, uprising or naysaying, bashing, fanboyism, trolling and the like.

I just wish humanity were more intelligent and sensitive than that. Expecially in the IT and micro electronics field, where it is supposed people SHOULD be more rational and less childly.


Last edited by ErikBauer on 14-Aug-2019 at 01:43 PM.

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 14:26:52
#1864 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4918
From: UK

@ErikBauer

It's a shame but that is what a lot of hype and no firm release dates does to a dying market where the customers are trying to justify investing in an expensive and increasing fragmenting Amiga market. There is absolutely no sane reason to hold out for either the Vampire or the Tabor but we like the platform and hate to see it fade away in a puff of vapourware!

It is even more annoying that the Tabor exists and has been with beta testers for over 2 years! I think most of us think that in a shrinking market that the Tabor and Vampire cannot both be successful. The Vampire A1200 and Standalone will get most people Amiga fund money this year IMHO mainly because it has a better chance of being finished (albeit released in small volumes).

Last edited by BigD on 14-Aug-2019 at 02:28 PM.

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 14:34:19
#1865 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5532
From: Unknown

@BigD

both products are very different

I assume many people will buy both (if available)

More people will propably buy vampire standalone simply because it is more interesting to them

of course some people have limited place and/or money so will buy what is first

But I do not believe of a big effect

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 14:41:03
#1866 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4918
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
But I do not believe of a big effect


No the biggest effect it the Hyperion vs Cloanto court case and all this community infighting which makes all these exciting products less enticing! We should be entering a period of joy and expansion with many people wanting to re-enter the Classic Amiga community with a Vampire Standalone or many wanting to try NG for the first time with the Tabor.

Instead the Amiga parties respond with the legendary...

... When it's done!

And by doing so they leave the prospective punters to set the forums alight with bickering and flame wars!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 14:48:40
#1867 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1289
From: Trondheim, Norway

@nikosidis

Quote:

Looking at all the 68k amiga games ever made you can count on one hand the games
that need more than standard Amiga 1200/020 running 14MHz.


So why bother with V4, when you can already have other FPGA systems that are half the price of current V2 cards, and are more than powerful enough.

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nikosidis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 15:09:43
#1868 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 890
From: Norway, Oslo

@kolla

Yes, that is right. It depends on what you want from it.
If you are only in it for games I would much rather have the real thing or like you say other, cheaper FPGA solutions.

If you like to use classic or new apps. that will operate faster with more cpu power or
like to see scene productions that are make for 060 it is a cheap accellerator even if
I'm not sure how compatible it is.

If I where doing Vampire i would hire some devs. that did a game that would require 080, SAGA or make use of all it got regarding power. Show us what it got! I know this is easy to say but that would make some noise. It does not realy have to require 080 but it could be looking best that way. This is what always drove the PC upgrading race.
I know 080 CPU and no GPU would be rediciouls compared with hardware today, but for 68k Amiga fans it might not.
I'm also in no doubt that you could make a realy nice 2D game with some 3D effects with it.
Even running HD resolutions.

Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 03:27 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 03:25 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 03:23 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 03:21 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Aug-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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bison 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 16:33:46
#1869 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1408
From: N-Space

@OlafS25

Quote:
I assume many people will buy both (if available) More people will propably buy vampire standalone simply because it is more interesting to them

Sounds like a poll.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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megol 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 16:46:52
#1870 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 316
From: Unknown

@bhabbott
Your FPGA is also simulating a 68k just on a lower (and slower) level using a lot of small lookup tables. Doing things like that have advantages and disadvantages but isn't more "real" in any way.

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outlawal2 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 16:48:04
#1871 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 58
From: Unknown

@bison

I do agree with Olafs on this one as I think many people will buy BOTH.
(Well if they ever see the light of day anyway..)

I know I intend to..

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 17:10:04
#1872 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8999
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Quote:
you like to use your amiga for playing Quake 3, crappy
internet browsing or video, media player?


Good working web browser would satisfy most needs for 90+ % users. Lack of essential applications is a bane of any platform.

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nikosidis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 19:34:49
#1873 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 890
From: Norway, Oslo

@pavlor

Agreed. The problem is that a browser is a program that has to be maintained. Even when there where a lot more users than now, Amiga never got a good web-browser. Not only that, but Amiga is not secure for internet.

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utri007 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 19:43:45
#1874 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 970
From: United States of Europe

@ErikBauer

True. I have zero interest for Vampire and Apollo, because their main goal is not compatibility.

That amazes me that how many and how many times many people are ready tell that they are not interested. Often they start plain stupidity arquments, like wich is more amiga vampire or ppc amgia.

Only thing wich annoyns me that much that I would like to share it, is Vampire & Apollo is using Apollo name. It really frustrating to trying to find info for ACT Apollo accelerators. Another thing is SAGA, it is near SAGE wich is first? RTG system for Amiga.

They should have choose names more carefully.

Last edited by utri007 on 14-Aug-2019 at 07:44 PM.

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bison 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 21:43:12
#1875 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1408
From: N-Space

@nikosidis

Quote:
Not only that, but Amiga is not secure for internet.

You beat me to it.

I suppose at the very least a web browser for Amiga should not accept https connections, which would dissuade people from using it for online banking and shopping.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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NovaCoder 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 1:08:10
#1876 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2008
Posts: 466
From: Melbourne (Australia)

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@kolla

Yes, that is right. It depends on what you want from it.
If you are only in it for games I would much rather have the real thing or like you say other, cheaper FPGA solutions.

If you like to use classic or new apps. that will operate faster with more cpu power or
like to see scene productions that are make for 060 it is a cheap accellerator even if
I'm not sure how compatible it is.



That's the problem with adding new advanced features to the classic chipset, the only applications/games that can use them have to be specifically built to use the new features and then you just end up with propriety hardware running propriety software (which I think is rather silly from a 'retro' point-of-view). If you just want a more advanced hobby computer then you would obviously be better off buying something like a Raspberry Pi 4.

For an FPGA re-implementation of the classic chipset then I think it's better to focus on improving the speed and compatibility, that makes more sense to me.

And don't forget about cost, the best thing about the original MiniMig was that it was relatively cheap!

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 14:26:28
#1877 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1289
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NovaCoder

Quote:

And don't forget about cost, the best thing about the original MiniMig was that it was relatively cheap!


And it can be done even cheaper - the FleaFPGA ohm that runs the Minimig more, only with 24MB Fast RAM, and TG68 core in FPGA as well (so 68020, but not AGA) - costed just 50 dollar. It was not meant as a dedicated Minimig board, and hence lacked a few bits and pieces for joystick ports, keyboard and mouse, but it shows that a dedicated minimig clone can be made very cheaply today.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 15:18:02
#1878 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1602
From: Norway

Amiga Vampire - ScummVm, the Dream Tunes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3yczCrXoIs

Games tested:

- The Secret of Monkey Island (EGA)
- Day of the Tentacle
- DiscWorld
- Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
- Leisure Suit Larry 6
- Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge
- Simon the Sorcerer

Machine:
Amiga 2000
Vampire 500 V2+
Core, Gold 2.12, x12

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nikosidis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 16:28:02
#1879 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 890
From: Norway, Oslo

@Overflow

Get a 50hz capable LCD monitor "Benq BL702A" or even better a CRT.



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bennymee 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 18:14:09
#1880 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 536
From: Netherlands

@bison

There are more alternatives on it's way, ACA 68060 en the Warp '060, so add these to the poll ;)




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