Poster | Thread |
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:49:03
| | [ #201 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @pavlor
your benchmarks are nice but meaningless... most 68k software does NOT run without UAE, that includes almost all games and most of the applications (except newer ones perhaps like Final Writer). You select one of the few games that work without UAE and then proof what exactly? I should know because I have invested a lot of time doing research and testing in the 68k software base and bought a lot of 68k software. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
kipper2k
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:54:07
| | [ #202 ] |
|
|
 |
Member  |
Joined: 27-Apr-2011 Posts: 25
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @BoingBear
Hi, to answer your questions, Majsta and I have started building the release version boards for users. HW is complete, the core is almost ready for release, (i am talking about 2 weeks. The other models are in the works, the good thing about the HW and the core itself is that it is relatively easy to port over to different models (if you know what to do, which they do!. The A500 HW has already been deigned and needs tweakng. The A1200 will need a partial rewrite but it is not going to take anywhere as long as the initial development of the a600.
We expect to begin the sale of boards to users in approx 2 weeks. Christmas ic coming so hopefully the team can still get together to finalize things.
Here is a video i made last night of the Vampire 2 (beta) board running OS 3.5 whdload games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwZ4gtLSlA&feature=youtu.be Last edited by kipper2k on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:08 PM. Last edited by kipper2k on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:08 PM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:54:08
| | [ #203 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @blizz1220
Slower GFX somewhat limits FPS (68k GFX driver), but even emulated under emulation, Doom runs faster than on any 68k Amiga in existence.  |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:01:28
| | [ #204 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @kipper2k
thanks 
already posted it on my Aros Vision Facebook page and the Amiga user group on facebook |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:03:51
| | [ #205 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Quote:
that includes almost all games |
True, that is why I mentioned my Lionheart "benchmark". My WinUAE/OS4 fails there...
Quote:
I should know because I have invested a lot of time doing research and testing in the 68k software base and bought a lot of 68k software. |
Everyone has own taste. Only 68k software I miss in WinUAE/OS4 configuration is DPaint (well, it works, but not reliable - seriously lacks support for GFX cards).
68k applications I use: FreeWheel (mouse wheel support) BarClock (simple clock for screen title bar) MysticView (superb picture viewer, picture rendering and loading components are native though) Cinema4D (much easier to use than Blender...) PPaint (there is native version, but has some limitations) TvPaint Lupe (nice magnifying glass utility) Asp (ZX Spectrum 128 emulator)
I also tested Angband 4.x, but don´t like some concept, so I play eyAngband (both 68k). |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:04:16
| | [ #206 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @pavlor
you do not react on others, don´t you? 
it is uninteresting if a few percent of the 68k software base runs faster when the rest does not work at all
or you get all the software developers (many have left a long time ago) to make the software OS compliant. Good luck with that  |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:04:28
| | [ #207 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @kipper2k
Quote:
We expect to begin the sale of boards to users in approx 2 weeks. |
Well done! |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:08:40
| | [ #208 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @pavlor
I can easily name you lots of libraries and also applications who certainly not work because needing chipset. And most games for sure not work without UAE because at that time everybody needed to develop for unexpanded A500 and get the last bit out of it. I know that UAE also runs on AOS but then you must use it for comparation. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:12:35
| | [ #209 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Quote:
I can easily name you lots of libraries and also applications who certainly not work because needing chipset. |
Of course. I named application I need/use. Others may require more 68k software.
Quote:
I know that UAE also runs on AOS but then you must use it for comparation. |
With 1+ GHz CPU, only few games don´t work well in UAE. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:20:42
| | [ #210 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @pavlor
UAE without JIT running in a relativ slow emulated environment? Yes they run but your thesis was that even in your environment they run faster than on the new card.
BTW any virtual platform without real hardware is not taken seriously by developers. I experienced that when I contacted former amiga game developers. I do not know if attitude changes (the platform is even with UAE small compared to the big ones) but I could imagine that interest rises. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:30:54
| | [ #211 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Quote:
UAE without JIT running in a relativ slow emulated environment? |
PowerPC UAE has JIT, fast enough eg. for GloomDeluxe (well this one somewhat works with Petunia) on my WinUAE/OS4 setup.
Quote:
Yes they run but your thesis was that even in your environment they run faster than on the new card. |
1st I didn´t write all 68k applications run faster on NG than on Vampire .(however, UAE JIT helps there, I wouldn´t be surprised if eg. PowerBook G4 was faster in some tasks even in UAE). 2th Most games have fixed performance requirements (A500, A1200+Fast RAM) 3rd Many of more demanding games work on NG (eg. Napalm).
Quote:
BTW any virtual platform without real hardware is not taken seriously by developers. |
You mean my current OS4 setup? I hope this is only stop-gap solution until Tabor release.  |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:55:31
| | [ #212 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @pavlor
no I mean 68k setups
This is about 68k not PPC... nobody takes PPC serious today 
Even if 1000 Tabor boards would be sold (what would surprise me when you look at the offering) but even then 1000 is nothing todays terms |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 12:05:33
| | [ #213 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Quote:
Even if 1000 Tabor boards would be sold (what would surprise me when you look at the offering) but even then 1000 is nothing todays terms |
I hope you don´t expect 1000 Vampires will be sold (that would be entire army of count Dracula! ). |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
OlafS25
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 12:11:11
| | [ #214 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
cdimauro
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 13:30:31
| | [ #215 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 4127
From: Germany | | |
|
| @AmigaHope
Quote:
AmigaHope wrote: @CodeSmith
What you *COULD* do is massive instruction-level parallelism. e.g. Intel's recent offerings have 4-issue cores with lots of execution units, branch prediction, speculative execution, etc.
|
Apple's A7/8/9 have 6-issues cores.
nVidia's Project Denver (that you find in some Tegra's SoCs) have 7-issues cores. Quote:
Intel and AMD are limited by to the poor design of x86 code, but they've managed to make it fast due to tons of research that compensate for the deep pipelines needed to translate x86 into simpler microops.
|
Many RISCs have deeper pipelines too, comparable, or even longer, to x86 cores. Quote:
The only superscalar 68k CPU we have an example of is the 68060. Like the original Pentium, it had a simple 2-issue core that, assuming the right execution units were available and the code was not data-dependent, it could execute two instructions at once.
|
68060 was limited to 2 very simple instructions (of one word each).
Pentium allowed to execute 2 more complex instructions. Quote:
The idea of an 8-issue core in normal processor development is crazy, as the gains over a 4-issue core would be small in comparison to adding more cores, but if your sole aim was to run a single generalized computing thread as much as possible (i.e. general code rather than a single algorithm), your only option is to burn transistors against the diminishing returns.
|
8-issue cores aren't so crazy: it depends on the processor architecture.
VLIWs and some DSPs are able to handle and take advantage of so many instructions that be issued per clock cycle. But they aren't general purpose processors: they are specialized ones, for specific tasks/algorithms.
@OlafS25
Quote:
OlafS25 wrote: @blizz1220
it is completely uninteresting if OS compliant code theoretical runs faster on Petunia/Trance than on the new board. Most games hack the hardware and do not run without chipset. WHDLoad does not run without chipset. Most 68k libraries f.e. all that were graphic/game related and not part of the OS were also needing chipset. Even many applications need the chipset. Only some of the newer applications and few games are running OS compliant and only using OS routines. Simple as that... |
I don't see the problem here. You use Petunia/Trance with o.s.-compliant software, and UAE for games or non-o.s.-compliant software. So you take full advantage of both tools. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 13:52:51
| | [ #216 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12963
From: Norway | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
cdimauro
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 14:02:28
| | [ #217 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 4127
From: Germany | | |
|
| @NutsAboutAmiga: I wasn't the only talking of different things, but "suddenly" you decide to reply only to my comment... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 14:18:13
| | [ #218 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @OlafS25
Quote:
So a number below 1000 would be a negative surprise |
If 1000 Tabor and more than 1000 Vampire boards are sold, I will again believe in resurrection of Amiga.  |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 15:26:54
| | [ #219 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12963
From: Norway | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
blizz1220
|  |
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo Posted on 12-Dec-2015 20:40:32
| | [ #220 ] |
|
|
 |
Regular Member  |
Joined: 12-Jun-2013 Posts: 437
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @kipper2k
Nice video.
Is that Brian the Lion AGA by any chance? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|