@Shiryu

oh my gosh,
trools think sam is a router , x 1000 was crappy, e5500 is slower than a g5 and now vampire is a fake ... i understand in this last years from when i return on the scene that there are many ppl who have really free time for trolling ... seya is only one of them. he make one error ... belive only in what wrong ppl write here and there and after cry because dont enjoy what the other have.

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I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @OlafS25 Quote: You can easily use UAE instead because I assume that most new software that might become available will run on both UAE and Vampire. How so? Software for Vampire will not run on UAE.

What makes you think so? Of course some software will get recompiled to use special Apollo Core features, but like in the days of 030, 040, 060 I am sure there will be complies for the other cpus as well. At least a 020 version as this is - due to UAE - the most common 68k core.
Today'd devs aren't living on the dark side of the moon, they know about diversity and that a 020 may be even more powerful than Apollo (of course no real 020, but a emulaed 020).

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My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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Last edited by Seiya on 30-Dec-2016 at 12:47 AM.
Last edited by Seiya on 30-Dec-2016 at 12:30 AM.

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote: What makes you think so?

AMMX, amongst other things?

Quote:

Of course some software will get recompiled to use special Apollo Core features, but like in the days of 030, 040, 060 I am sure there will be complies for the other cpus as well.

Well, software built for AC 68080 tends to be written in assembler, and much of the points of using AMMX etc is to make assembler programming easier. If the developer still needs to figure out clever ways to also make things work on "legacy" 68k, then why bother with AMMX function calls in the first place? No, I am quite confident there will be software around that will built to only run on AC 68080 and hence not on UAE.

Quote:

Today'd devs aren't living on the dark side of the moon, they know about diversity and that a 020 may be even more powerful than Apollo (of course no real 020, but a emulaed 020).

AC 68080 is more like a 68LC040 with its very own MPU (memory protection unit), and its very own AMMX instruction set, and possible its very own FPU - this last point has been very foggy.

Last edited by kolla on 30-Dec-2016 at 01:20 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 30-Dec-2016 at 01:01 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 30-Dec-2016 at 12:59 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla,

Needs proper DMA support also.

@kolla

the developer will decide if it is "68080 only" or both Vampire and UAE. From a commercial point of view limiting it to vampires only makes sense if this really offers obvious advantages. I believe most updated software will not be Vampire only, expecially if not directly hacking on the hardware but using the OS.

@kolla

I would be surprised if this Vampire only fork gained better software support than current 68k...

Another division of our platform is not good idea.

@pavlor

Thats a good discussionpoint, and I dont really know how it will play out.
Take AmiStore, which is quite demanding, Matthew saying its rather slow on his 060 machine.
A Vampire would most likely deal with a Vampire optimized AmiStore quite decently.

Additionally; Im assuming that Vampire owners are over average active Amiga users, that are likely to spend money on new/upgraded software.

Anyhow, Im just assuming wildly here, but it seems somewhat logical to me at least

And just noticed a new Vampire 500 user on youtube;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz27llFZyvc

Last edited by Overflow on 30-Dec-2016 at 09:40 AM.

@Overflow

AmiStore is bad example - un-Amiga UI. Looks and feels like Hollywood application (I hope it is not developed in Hollywood...).

@pavlor

Fair point about AmiStore being a bad example, but my point stands.

Vampire users I belive (without having raw data supporting that claim) is more active, and likely to upgrade software.
Vampire Hardware will increase the BASELINE performance standard to atleast 128 megabytes ram, RTG etc (And soonish FPU).

Considering that BigGun has made a serious point out of ensuring compability with old software, it wont exclude using old software, but I do understand your worry about having new software not being usable by Motorola 680x0 Amiga hardware, BUT I would counter with; real 060 hardware is rare, old and expensive.

Take AeonKit; they develop new software/hardware, and as such wont have that much of a customerbase in the classic line if they want to port their AOS 4.x software over to the classic line where most of us got 020 or 030 cards (if even that).

Its a intresting discussion tho. How hard will it to be develop for both 680x0 and Vampire, thru development chain
Until a pure Vampire software offering is put out for sale, its just a guessing game with regards to viability.

@Overflow

Quote:

BUT I would counter with; real 060 hardware is rare, old and expensive.

The topic here was Vampire vs UAE, not Vampire vs real 060.

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@kolla

Quote:

he topic here was Vampire vs UAE, not Vampire vs real 060.

If extra features of the 68080 become important then it will probably get emulated. If it's just AMMX optimised media players that are produced then raw CPU emulation will probably always beat it anyway.

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: Well, software built for AC 68080 tends to be written in assembler, and much of the points of using AMMX etc is to make assembler programming easier. If the developer still needs to figure out clever ways to also make things work on "legacy" 68k, then why bother with AMMX function calls in the first place? No, I am quite confident there will be software around that will built to only run on AC 68080 and hence not on UAE.

A certain share of devs may code in assembler, but majority doesn't code in assembler, Hence, I doubt it will really be much software that will be Apollo only. Rather the specialities like datatypes or a media player and maybe two, three games, but not the majority of developments.
Anyway, we'll see.

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

I can't imagine Apollo specific software will be very prominent. There's simply too few owners, ergo developers of the hardware. Compared to "real" 68k CPU, or emulation users its a niche user base.

Can't say I agree with the idea that Vampire users are more likely to spend money and/or more active than non-vampire users either. The vast, vast majority of recent 68k software has been developed on either real 680x0 based systems or UAE. ACA accelerators always sell out quickly, Indivision sold like hotcakes (vampire wasn't even on the radar back then),etc,etc.

As an Amithlon user it'd be disappointing, and ironic, if software developed with more resources in mind didn't work because someone targeted it at the comparatively slow vampire cards.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 31-Dec-2016 at 04:22 AM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 31-Dec-2016 at 02:20 AM.

@ErikBauer

Quote:

I mostly agree with BigD, my point of view is that 68K/PPC comparison (let alone war) is nonsense. These two architectures are two different generations of Amiga,

Quote:

IThey are just a different kind of Amiga.

Natami/apollo/vampire crap should be compared with PPC Amigas.

Some scumbags fool You.

You can use PPC Amiga as You use 68k Amiga.

PPC Amigas are the same as Amigas as 68k.

Only better because many times faster.

There is nothing special in 68k.

68k are underpowered overpriced crap and only good thing is it work in 32 bit BE mode.

It is cpu like many other which work in 32 bit BE mode and there is no reason to use it when there better alternatives like PPC.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 31-Dec-2016 at 08:31 AM.
Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 31-Dec-2016 at 08:31 AM.

@ppcamiga1

Yo, man. May I ask you a favor? Yes? Thanks! So, here's what I wanna ask you: could you please stop stop talking about crap like 68k vs PPC?
I'm asking you that for two main reasons:
1) it's useless, pointless and smells like s**t
2) That good ol' Seiya guy doesn't understand much of english, so he'll think that you are not a troll while you are, instead.

Lemme think... Uh... Yeah there's third reason!

3) We don't need more useless hooligans.

Thank you for your understanding, happy new year and... Yeah just put a random insult.

@ppcamiga1

How can it be the same, but better?

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This is just like television, only you can see much further.

Amiga Killing Cloud test 30@28mhz vs Vampire500

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdNTWtflC1U

There is still some lag on the Vampire, but I assume thats an code issue, and not performance.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

PPC crap should be compared with UAE Amigas. Some scumbags fool You. You can use UAE Amiga as You use PPC Amiga. UAE Amigas are the same as Amigas as PPC. Only better because many times faster. There is nothing special in PPC. PPC are underpowered overpriced crap and only good thing is it work in 32 bit BE mode. It is cpu like many other which work in 32 bit BE mode and there is no reason to use it when there better alternatives like UAE.

Tsk, tsk. What's with all the PPC hating ppcamiga1?

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This is just like television, only you can see much further.

@Shiryu

it seems you fear any ideas different from yours
I'm free to be contrary to vampire and i'm free to say it to world in civil and polite manner, unlike you.
This is the difference from me and you!

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