@cdimauro

Quote:

No: PowerPC is big-endian, whereas x64 is little-endian.

Most PPC CPUs are bi-endian.

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@cdimauro

Quote:

No: PowerPC is big-endian, whereas x64 is little-endian.

Correction ... depends of what cpu ppc you are speaking about.

G5 are full big endian
G4 have little endian and big endian instruction (P6T too)
the new ppc are all little endian.
no more endianess

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@tlosm

If OS4.1 runs on new PPC processors. New PPC processors are little endian and X64 are little endian surely that means that porting bit by bit could be done?

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@1Mouse

Port alone is not that big problem, you can have first release within 2 years. Compatibility, that is another question...

@1Mouse

i dont know the 5020 if it is full little endian , but i suppose yes. i need to make some tests on linux in building some code for understand if some code that was making endianess will finally cut off it ... for sure the last power serie are little endian.

Last edited by tlosm on 12-Dec-2015 at 03:10 PM.

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@1Mouse

OS 4.1 like Morphos have big parts made in assembly, plus compatibility is not guaranted like pavlor write before.

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@tlosm

Uhm, MorphOS does not have "big parts made in assembly". Endianess is not big deal but 68k compatibility is lost in the process.

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@tlosm

Quote:

G4 have little endian and big endian instruction (P6T too)

It can switch the endianess via a bit in the MSR and IIRC certain instructions were very slow if they crossed the page boundary in the LE mode.

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@itix

i Was pretty sure about, I was thinking Ralph did this in the mos kernel

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@cdimauro

Quote:

No: PowerPC is big-endian, whereas x64 is little-endian.

The ppc notebook group is feeling some pressure from growing interest to run linux ppc64el, which is endian-little mode...

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@1Mouse

Quote:

Rather than doing an all out port over to X64, was think emulation could be used and then over a period of time make more and more elements X64 native.

I don't know of a hybrid native/emulation solution is feasible -- has this been done before? In any case, I think a port to x86-64 is the best long-term solution. In the meantime, I'm happy that we have emulation.

In a few years everything but x86-64 and AArch64 will be probably be the only viable desktop architectures. Use of x86 and ARMv7 will likely remain high as well, since not everything needs to be 64-bit. Everything else is *already* languishing, so this isn't a prediction so much as an eyes-open observation.

There's always the possibility of a major unforeseen event changing the direction things have been headed for the past 15 years -- wouldn't that be exciting (and disruptive).

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@tlosm

There are lwbrx and stwbrx instructions (to mention few) to swap byte order but they are just "general purpose" instructions to read/write LE/BE data from applications efficiently.

The processor byte order is switched from the MSR and can be used only with great caution (f.e. never).

Last edited by itix on 12-Dec-2015 at 07:34 PM.

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@itix

Quote:

It can switch the endianess via a bit in the MSR and IIRC certain instructions were very slow if they crossed the page boundary in the LE mode.

yes this was the big gap of g5 ... cant switch it

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@tlosm

Are you guys even sure of your facts?
After all, MorphOS runs on the G5.

@iggy

it is a powerpc
endianess you face during compiling expecially in conversions from an architecture to another... a big endianess was in virtual pc on mac ... they fixed in 7 and up... before virtual pc dont run on g5

Last edited by tlosm on 13-Dec-2015 at 12:19 AM.

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@bison

Pity OS4.1 emulation can only access virtual hard drives.

So far I have experienced issues when installing actual software, once installed 24 hours later and the emulation is no longer usable.

Anyhow, an all out port to X64 with some compatibility issues within the next 2 years and I would be very happy.

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@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote: the new ppc are all little endian.

Thats wrong. All ppcs are big endian or big endian + little endian.
I guess you are wrong because you probably equated QorIQ with PPC.
Future QorIQ will be little endian, but only those that are not PPC cored, but ARM cored.
PPC/Power always includes big endian (many ppc offer LE, too and Power since Power8 as well).

Last edited by Zylesea on 13-Dec-2015 at 01:26 AM.

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@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote: @tlosm Are you guys even sure of your facts? After all, MorphOS runs on the G5.

68k is BE and so is MorphOS. Hence, no prob on the 970.
The endian issue is/was the major show stopper to another ISA while maintaining legacy binary compability.

http://via.i-networx.de/q86.htm

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@Zylesea

Quote:

The endian issue is/was the major show stopper to another ISA while maintaining legacy binary compability.

For us, as we jettison binary compatibility with the next ISA move, no problem.

But one poster on MorphZone suggested an interesting alternate, a PPC PCIe plug in board that could be installed in a passive backplane or an expansion slot on a cheap X64 motherboard.

Given something like that we could move across ISA boundaries more smoothly while retaining legacy compatibility.

Its a like like to opposite of our first move, installing PPCs into our legacy equipment.

Now the board installed would be the component designed to support legacy compatibility, and the board it was installed in would support our new direction.

@Zylesea

umm , probably im wrong but can explain this ?

https://wiki.debian.org/ppc64el#News

it is totally not compatible with ppc64 only machine like is the G5.

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