@wawa

Quote:

but then even at the beginning of the nineties i knew only few amiga users

Important part. There were no Amiga computers in Poland (or Czechoslovakia) before 1989, except in magazines. Germany in comparison was for Commodore the biggest Amiga market in Europe and this platform was common there in late 1980s. Amiga was losing competitive advantage in early 1990s (286/386, VGA) and newly opened eastern European markets reflected this in poor adoption of Amiga computers (mostly in low-cost segment, but there was position of Amiga untenable by 1994 too).

Western European Amiga population is of course older than us (and U.S. much older).

Quote:

but today i dont really know any amiga fan face to face.

I know my brother, does that count?

@cgutjahr

Quote:

Cloanto is the party actually distributing (modified) physical and digital copies of both Kickstart and Workbench 3.1, so there is not much "exclusiveness" to Hyperion's rights at all. One would also assume that this leak might be a lot more of a threat to Cloanto's business than to Hyperion's for the reasons already mentioned (don't get my wrong: still not much of a threat though).

New thread on eab claims the DMCA take downs came from Cloanto:

AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@hyperion

Why is Hyperion putting that much energy and effort in such a thing?

I wished to read such a long text about a roadmap, development news or an update.

But instead another unprofessional statement including accuses against someone.

Who cares about the leaked sources? Just go on with development of AmigaOS 4.2 and deliver soon please. That's your job, right?

Last edited by Birbo on 05-Jan-2016 at 07:50 PM.

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they’re writing nice sentences even if it isn’t adding up to much.

@Birbo

Quote:

That's your job, right?

Defending Amiga IP is their job too...

@pavlor

I really don't think so. They should first deliver a product. Putting energy in defending Amiga IP is absolutely a waste of time. Who do they want to sue?

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they’re writing nice sentences even if it isn’t adding up to much.

@Birbo

Quote:

I really don't think so.

I simply don´t share your opinion.

Quote:

They should first deliver a product.

Never heard about AmigaOS?

Quote:

Who do they want to sue?

Everyone who hosts stolen IP on his site...

@wawa

Quote:

amiga fans [...] are quite an endangered species it seems.

Sure, that much is true. I wasn't talking about "fans" though - just people who owned one at one point in time. For them, it was like a games console - the only difference being it used disks instead of cartridges.

I just came back from doing sport. Only three people today (not friends, just the people I do sport with) - all three about my age and of all us owned an Amiga at one point.

@OlafS25

Quote:

shall inform is shall inform

I'm with pavlor here: "shall" (German: "soll") does indicate a neccessity IMHO.

@cgutjahr

Somebody just posted this on EAB (thanks wXr!), it's too funny not to repost it even if it is not really fair:

http://csdb.dk/scener/?id=8057

I never made the connection, even if Ben's private mail address is a strong hint.

Legend? I just regained some respect for the man

@kolla

Quote:

Btw, through some contacts I have learned that various individuals have spent this xmas going through the sources with the intention of cleaning it up, update it to more modern toolchains etc, the goal is to make a better and more maintainable OS3.x that doesn't involve "socializing with obnoxious Germans" (yeah, what is the deal with all the German besserwissers in Amiga land?!). Of course these people will remain anonymous.

It would actually be cooler if they did put that time into getting AROS better IMHO.

Last edited by morpa on 05-Jan-2016 at 11:25 PM.

News of the leak was posted on Phoronix today, so the number of people who now know about it has greatly increased.

https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AmigaOS-3.1-Leak-Confirmed

It's interesting to read the comments posted at the above link -- it's a good example of the sort of idiots that infest the Linux "community".

The real value of Amiga is the community, not the hardware or software.

Last edited by bison on 06-Jan-2016 at 04:04 PM.
Last edited by bison on 06-Jan-2016 at 01:33 AM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@pavlor

What I wanted to ask is: What is the reason for Hyperion to put energy into this?

Honestly: I didn't see much of a development (AmigaOS) by Hyperion. Instead I've seen legal battles here and there (last one of bankruptcy). Is it because Ben is a lawyer?

The AmigaOS 3.1 Sources are super old, hard to compile and of no real interest any more.

I would like to see a plan for AmigaOS 4.2 - including communication towards the community.
The constant Hyperion bla bla, without producing anything real is a joke.

I'm sorry to say that - but I'm really disappointed by the work of Hyperion and I hope that someone else takes over the development of AmigaOS. It can't get any worse.

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they’re writing nice sentences even if it isn’t adding up to much.

@Birbo

While in mainstream terms there are very very few people intrested in AOS3.x, but with FPGAs like Vampire, AOS3.x can be quite useful again for common usage. The youtubes showing the speed improvements is very impressive. Coupled with the extra ram, I can see my A1200 getting ALOT of more usage (I fire it up vitrtually every day already).

Maybe there is a few bucks to be made there ...?

And maybe they think improved AOS3.x+FPGAs will prevent some people taking the dive from AOS3 to AOS4...?

Most likely its neither of the reasons I theories about, and just a pure legal issue.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @cdimauro it is a mess but people want to use the software. If it not works then they say "Aros is bad" and move away. That is of course not true for X86 or ARM but there is not much productivity software available there, most are game ports. You mentioned there that you prefer a "clean OS" even if that means no software. Sorry to shock you: "Users use Software and are not content with moving windows". So if Aros wants to become more than "Research" it needs a vision how to get more software. Cutting the existing base does not sound like a good plan. And regarding Aros 68k, I disagree there. Fortunately people can test it themselves easily.

Then the 68K community (which is 15:1 compared to the NG one, according to you) should directly and actively contribute to AROS/68K.

But I don't see so much interest, looking at bounties which specifically target 68K or indirectly affect it (e.g. solving Odyssey's endianess issues).

Not-68K AROS works already pretty well without all that kind of weird patches to be added only because many 68K lamers developed badly written code. So, I don't see why AROS devs should have to spend time on it.

Anyway, Amiga o.s. 3.1. sources cannot be taken by AROS/68K devs, because it compromises the clean-room approach. End of story here.

However I greatly appreciate if non-source code stuff will be publicly released by the IP owners, just for historical reasons. Reading Commodore's roadmap, the AAA documentation, the PA-RISC docs, etc. doesn't affect at all both Hyperion and Cloanto, whereas they'll make very happy many amigans which wants to know what happened.

@Birbo

Quote:

What I wanted to ask is: What is the reason for Hyperion to put energy into this?

Legal formalities foremost but the condescension and doom are thrown in with equal measure.

The code should be open-sourced but someone with initiative may actually use it to push the needle forward. We certainly can't have that.

@pavlor

Quote:

Important part. There were no Amiga computers in Poland (or Czechoslovakia) before 1989, except in magazines.

That is true. I bought my first Amiga on 3 August 1990, and I had to go to Germany to get it because none were sold in the Czech Republic at that time.

@ne_one

Quote:

condescension and doom are thrown in with equal measure.

But do Hyperion have any other option? If you're legally bound to protect something that is now spreading like wildfire in the virtual world, the only thing you can do is play the paper tiger.

Quote:

The code should be open-sourced

True but you know very well that Hyperion cannot possibly do that even if they wanted to. It's not their code.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@cdimauro

Quote:

Then the 68K community (which is 15:1 compared to the NG one, according to you) should directly and actively contribute to AROS/68K.

not necessarily, as long as aros doesnt offer them usability they are accustomed to, before the features beyond. in order for this to happen certain entr level has to be reached, especially the documentation about how to code aros and for aros is rather hard to find or non existent. good thing is that there are people like deaadwood who actually understand this and help people like me improve their testing skills and even do some actual fixing, but i couldnt do it without his help and no doubt even an experienced coder would need some guidance figuring out his ways around.

Quote:

But I don't see so much interest, looking at bounties which specifically target 68K or indirectly affect it (e.g. solving Odyssey's endianess issues).

you could as well argue morphos people are not interested in up to date webkit/odyssey with java script. certainly most amiga users dont care about an up to date browser as it wont run on an a500. others dont expect it to run even on an expanded amiga, which leaves us with uae users, who can use browsers on a host system anyway. odyssey may be an interesting exercise to be achieved to run on an amiga, but it may not be priority for many people.

Quote:

Not-68K AROS works already pretty well without all that kind of weird patches to be added only because many 68K lamers developed badly written code. So, I don't see why AROS devs should have to spend time on it.

if anyone spends time on it, its the aros68k maintainers, who wouldnt even contribute to aros if amiga-m68k branch wouldnt existed. now, i certainly understand if aros coders dont want to spend too much time on it themselves, but they can help others get into this, which suits all platforms i guess, because platform independent code may get fixed by the way.

@Trixie

Quote:

True but you know very well that Hyperion cannot possibly do that even if they wanted to. It's not their code.

if its not their code, and they are just a perpetual licensee, then why they even bother. i might be wrong, but logically it seems that the obligation to defend the ip remains rather with the owner, except the leak would be the licensees own fault.

They are just pissed that someone else managed to steal that code in a less convoluted way than they had to do.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Then the 68K community (which is 15:1 compared to the NG one, according to you) should directly and actively contribute to AROS/68K. not necessarily, as long as aros doesnt offer them usability they are accustomed to, before the features beyond. in order for this to happen certain entr level has to be reached, especially the documentation about how to code aros and for aros is rather hard to find or non existent. good thing is that there are people like deaadwood who actually understand this and help people like me improve their testing skills and even do some actual fixing, but i couldnt do it without his help and no doubt even an experienced coder would need some guidance figuring out his ways around.

AROS community is quite active from this PoV.
Quote:

Quote: But I don't see so much interest, looking at bounties which specifically target 68K or indirectly affect it (e.g. solving Odyssey's endianess issues). you could as well argue morphos people are not interested in up to date webkit/odyssey with java script. certainly most amiga users dont care about an up to date browser as it wont run on an a500. others dont expect it to run even on an expanded amiga, which leaves us with uae users, who can use browsers on a host system anyway. odyssey may be an interesting exercise to be achieved to run on an amiga, but it may not be priority for many people.

Well, with the upcoming FPGA projects I think that many 68K users expect to have a decent browser for their favorite platform.

Anyway, Odyssey was just an example.
Quote:

Quote: Not-68K AROS works already pretty well without all that kind of weird patches to be added only because many 68K lamers developed badly written code. So, I don't see why AROS devs should have to spend time on it. if anyone spends time on it, its the aros68k maintainers, who wouldnt even contribute to aros if amiga-m68k branch wouldnt existed.

Maintainers and contributors are different peoples.
Quote:

now, i certainly understand if aros coders dont want to spend too much time on it themselves, but they can help others get into this,

See above: the AROS community is pretty active here.
Quote:

which suits all platforms i guess, because platform independent code may get fixed by the way.

That's a different story, because what we were talking about is related to the absurd issues created by stupid 68K programmers which didn't respected Commodore's guidelines for developing their crap code.

Here IMO it's the 68K community duty to work on fixing that stuff.

Non-68K AROS devs should only care about Amiga o.s. public APIs, because that's what's needed for such platforms.

@cdimauro

Quote:

AROS community is quite active from this PoV.

sorry, but it doesnt look like that. the number of active developers and contributors diminishes, you can count them of fingers of one hand by now and i dont see anyone who is currently making effort to join in besides me, a rather pityful noob in fact.

imho things could improve a lot in this respect as to welcome contributor, no matter what target platform.

what concerns odyssey. if no bounty will be set up i might try to take care of it and include it into the build system. but it will definitely take longer than if deadwood would do that.