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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Software
      /  Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
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cha05e90 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 11:49:39
#201 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1274
From: Germany

@wawa

Quote:
then why they even bother.

Because they have to.

Internally I'm sure Hyperion gives a s**t about *that* AmigaOS 3.1 sources. They already have them - albeit in a much better shape due to olsen's herculean work. Nevertheless the license agreement enforces them to go after all known copyright/whatever breaches regarding their underlying, licensed code base. Simple as that.

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wawa 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 12:12:41
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@cha05e90

usually i would think its the other way around, if the owner grants the licensee exclusive perpetual license than it would be only fair if the licensee has a right to demand of the owner that the subject of the license is secure, but i might be wrong. whatever.

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umisef 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 12:14:01
#203 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1677
From: Melbourne, Australia

@cha05e90

Quote:
Nevertheless the license agreement enforces them to go after all known copyright/whatever breaches regarding their underlying, licensed code base.


According to the official statement, it's supposed to be the publicly available settlement agreement "which contractually requires Hyperion to enforce and protect any intellectual property rights associated with AmigaOS including the AmigaOS 3.1 source-code".

However, no matter how many times I read that document, I seem unable to find any such requirement being mentioned. The only requirement I see is for Hyperion to inform "the Amiga Parties" if they become aware of the IP being misappropriated by anyone.

So --- does anyone else see any requirement in that settlement agreement for Hyperion to "enforce and protect" the IP? And if so, could you point me at the relevant clause?

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Develin 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 12:54:33
#204 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 439
From: Karlstad, Sweden

This leak will probably delay 4.2 (or whatever the name of it will be called) even further even though it got nothing todo with the current development.

Bad timing or a leak on purpose just to get PR since the next release is far away ?

The best thing would have been if this source could be released for free for real IMO.



@cgutjahr

That csdb-link is pure entertainment in a hypocrisy way, got a good laugh how things are legal when its suitable for some =)

Last edited by Develin on 06-Jan-2016 at 12:59 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 13:42:33
#205 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
AROS community is quite active from this PoV.


sorry, but it doesnt look like that. the number of active developers and contributors diminishes, you can count them of fingers of one hand by now and i dont see anyone who is currently making effort to join in besides me, a rather pityful noob in fact.

Maybe I wasn't clear before, but I wasn't referring to the number of AROS contributors. I was talking about the fact that the AROS community gives help to people which wants to use and/or develop AROS.


@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote:

So --- does anyone else see any requirement in that settlement agreement for Hyperion to "enforce and protect" the IP?

No, I don't. It seems another invention...


@Develin

Quote:

Develin wrote:
This leak will probably delay 4.2 (or whatever the name of it will be called) even further even though it got nothing todo with the current development.

Bad timing or a leak on purpose just to get PR since the next release is far away ?

I don't see why there should be a delay, since Hyperion has only to inform Amiga Inc. and/or Cloanto of the leak.

And writing an e-mail doesn't take years on my country...

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Yasu 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 14:54:31
#206 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2015
Posts: 224
From: Stockholm, Sweden

How is writing a statement plus asking Github and a couple of torrent sites to take down a file going to delay anything? Are we counting development time in minutes now?

_________________
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My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 15:05:48
#207 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 759
From: Germany

@Yasu

Quote:

Yasu wrote:
How is writing a statement plus asking Github and a couple of torrent sites to take down a file going to delay anything? Are we counting development time in minutes now?

Since you asked: imagine, if you will, that you are on your Christmas holidays (or what's left of them), and you are notified that an operating system leak has occured. It is your duty to find out if the AmigaOS 4 source code repository has been compromised and if data has been stolen. You also need to figure what exactly has been leaked, and assess the seriousness of the situation.

How many minutes might that take?

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Yasu 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 15:50:31
#208 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2015
Posts: 224
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@olsen

Several I suppose. I just fail to see how that will effect AmigaOS development that much.

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

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BSzili 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 17:15:01
#209 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 446
From: Unknown

@olsen
Fair point, but is this the job of the AmigaOS developers?

_________________
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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 17:17:07
#210 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 759
From: Germany

@BSzili

Quote:

BSzili wrote:
@olsen
Fair point, but is this the job of the AmigaOS developers?

To quote the wise words of a man so much smarter than me: "Who you gonna call?"

Besides, I am not only an Amiga developer

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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 17:22:36
#211 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 759
From: Germany

@Yasu

Quote:

Yasu wrote:
@olsen

Several I suppose. I just fail to see how that will effect AmigaOS development that much.

This is a small operation which, nevertheless, still requires infrastructure and support.

Some of those involved wear multiple hats, some are specialists, some work simply cannot be easily delegated. If something like the AmigaOS 3.1 leak occurs, it's bound to gum up the works for a while, and if you are lucky, the effects are mitigated so that the others can keep working without impediment (and will have fun doing so).

Some guys, however, will take a hit for the team and find that the Christmas vacation has become all too short.

That time lost comes out of the "spare time" budget, and the lack of that spare time will be felt. Enough said

Last edited by olsen on 06-Jan-2016 at 05:22 PM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 18:21:54
#212 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 963
From: Unknown

@olsen

Quote:

That time lost comes out of the "spare time" budget, and the lack of that spare time will be felt. Enough said

He was referring to the amount of time it took you to verify what this leak contains - which can't be more than five minutes, a simple look at the file dates should make it obvious what this is.

Granted, that might still be five minutes you might have wanted to use for something else (I know the feeling), but the original claim that Yasu replied to was that "this will delay 4.2 even further" - I'm sure you agree that's 'a bit' of an exaggeration?

Besides, there's allegedly a confidential strategy paper from the software engineering departement in there, I bet you loved reading that

@Yasu

Quote:

How is writing a statement plus asking Github and a couple of torrent sites to take down a file going to delay anything?

Rumours have it that the take down notices are from Cloanto, not Hyperion. No idea if that's true though.

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Yasu 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 18:22:54
#213 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2015
Posts: 224
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@olsen

That sucks of course, but don't you think mr Hermans can do this lawyer stuff himself? After all, he is a lawyer.

_________________
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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 19:49:48
#214 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@cgutjahr

Quote:

cgutjahr wrote:
@olsen

Quote:

That time lost comes out of the "spare time" budget, and the lack of that spare time will be felt. Enough said

He was referring to the amount of time it took you to verify what this leak contains - which can't be more than five minutes, a simple look at the file dates should make it obvious what this is.

Exactly. With tools like Total Commander, you can make a "diff" of two different filesystems (or archives) in a few seconds.

Here is quite simple, because you (Hyperion) already have a baseline (the Amiga o.s. 3.1 sources).

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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 20:31:40
#215 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 759
From: Germany

@cgutjahr

Quote:

cgutjahr wrote:
@olsen

Quote:

That time lost comes out of the "spare time" budget, and the lack of that spare time will be felt. Enough said

He was referring to the amount of time it took you to verify what this leak contains - which can't be more than five minutes, a simple look at the file dates should make it obvious what this is.

Some of it was obvious, but obvious only goes so far. If you are asked for an opinion, that might be sufficient, but to give a (hopefully) accurate assessment which should not be easily contested then you need to put in more work.

Quote:
Granted, that might still be five minutes you might have wanted to use for something else (I know the feeling), but the original claim that Yasu replied to was that "this will delay 4.2 even further" - I'm sure you agree that's 'a bit' of an exaggeration?

I wish it had taken up less time. Some context: the leaked archive does not just contain AmigaOS 3.1 source code, there is more material included which belongs to several different collections of material which were part of the archive data that was provided to Amiga Technologies GmbH in 1995.

That historic archive data is significantly larger than what was leaked in the archive. How much of that data leaked? This is important, too, because it allows to you place the source which leaked it. Could it have been somebody with access to the Amiga Technologies GmbH material? Would this be material which was only accessible to Commodore engineers? What about that rumour of Amiga International sharing confidential source code, could that have been in the archive?

There was also the question to answer what exactly is missing from the archive, and what is in the archive that should not be there. More to the point, had AmigaOS4 source code been leaked?

All of this took more time to clear up than expected.

Quote:
Besides, there's allegedly a confidential strategy paper from the software engineering departement in there, I bet you loved reading that

Could be, but it's been a long time since I was involved in sifting through the archive material for Amiga Technologies GmbH back in 1995. I have not looked at this documentation since. What I recall about it was truly disheartening.

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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 20:35:18
#216 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 759
From: Germany

@cdimauro

Quote:
Exactly. With tools like Total Commander, you can make a "diff" of two different filesystems (or archives) in a few seconds.

Here is quite simple, because you (Hyperion) already have a baseline (the Amiga o.s. 3.1 sources).

This would be quick and straightforward if the names of all the files and directory paths were the same in the baseline archive and the leaked archive, which they are not. It would have also been easy if there had just been the source code in the leaked archive and no additional material which came from the same source as the archival material which I checked.

Picture it like this: you have one small haystack that breaks down into several smaller haystacks (that would be the leaked archive). Now you need to match these smaller haystacks against a much, much larger haystack (that would be the historic archive) and figure out which bits fit where exactly.

If you are finished matching the pieces, you check which bits of chaff are still unaccounted for.

Last edited by olsen on 06-Jan-2016 at 08:36 PM.
Last edited by olsen on 06-Jan-2016 at 08:36 PM.

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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 20:39:32
#217 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 759
From: Germany

@Yasu

Quote:

Yasu wrote:
@olsen

That sucks of course, but don't you think mr Hermans can do this lawyer stuff himself? After all, he is a lawyer.

He still needs evidence to go on (as in "this is actually copyrighted material for which Hyperion has to assume responsibility" rather than "this is random data made to look like copyrighted material and as such does not require attention"), and that he could not produce all by himself.

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 6-Jan-2016 20:55:21
#218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
Exactly. With tools like Total Commander, you can make a "diff" of two different filesystems (or archives) in a few seconds.

Here is quite simple, because you (Hyperion) already have a baseline (the Amiga o.s. 3.1 sources).

This would be quick and straightforward if the names of all the files and directory paths were the same in the baseline archive and the leaked archive, which they are not. It would have also been easy if there had just been the source code in the leaked archive and no additional material which came from the same source as the archival material which I checked.

Picture it like this: you have one small haystack that breaks down into several smaller haystacks (that would be the leaked archive). Now you need to match these smaller haystacks against a much, much larger haystack (that would be the historic archive) and figure out which bits fit where exactly.

If you are finished matching the pieces, you check which bits of chaff are still unaccounted for.

OK, the situation is different, and it's not that simple.

A small Python script can be used to map the two different filesystems, locating the same files regardless of their names.

However it'll not detect the same file if it has received some changes, even very small ones.

For this case I had an idea just now which can elegantly solve the problem, but I prefer to don't talk about it.

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Jupp3 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 7-Jan-2016 0:06:29
#219 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Yasu

Quote:
How is writing a statement plus asking Github and a couple of torrent sites to take down a file going to delay anything?

Even if it appears that Ben Hermans has quite a bit of experience in cracking commercial software, I don't think he's writing much OS code for Hyperion (please correct me if I'm wrong)

At least I'd assume it to be him, who would be handling such legal issues over there.

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paolone 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 7-Jan-2016 16:14:47
#220 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1130
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:

Besides, there's allegedly a confidential strategy paper from the software engineering departement in there, I bet you loved reading that


It's a pity these very old plans can't be publicly disclosed as well. They would be interesting from a mere hystorical point of view. Do they include any information that could possibly harm the owner (Amiga Inc) and its current licensees?

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