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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
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zzd10h 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 9:41:28
#401 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1077
From: France

@BigD

"my guess is that sales of AmigaOS 4.1 FE have been used to fund the X5000/Tabor ports not bug fixes."
My guess is that it could be AEon that paid Hyperion for X5000/Tabor ports.

_________________
http://apps.amistore.net/zTools

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 9:45:46
#402 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@BigD

how can you judge how annoying bugs are without using it at all?

That sounds a little weird

I cannot... but you seem to have superior skills to me obviously

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 9:48:52
#403 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@zzd10h

it also could be that they do not get money before completing the port. At least (expecially when looking at Hyperions history) I would not give them the money before they have done the work or at least only parts of it. But we will propably never know because Ben H. or Trevor will not tell it to us.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 9:50:46
#404 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
how can you judge how annoying bugs are without using it at all?


As he is not exposed to bugs, his OS4 user experience is bugfree.

Speaking about bugs, for me most grave are:

1. Known 128 MB RAM limitation.
2. Unstability of AutoInfo commodity (I was forced to turn it off, it was my favourite 4.1FE feature ).

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 9:53:38
#405 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@BigD

BTW people buying X5000 are in many cases propably people already owning PPC AmigaOS hardware. How many do you think are interested in buying new hardware if the old system is buggy and bad supported? Also unsatisfied customers tell it to others and hardly try to convince others to buy something. So it is never a good idea not to at least offer bug fixes.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 9:56:50
#406 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@pavlor

LOL



Regarding the limitations at UAE I fear Hyperion will never remove them. They want people to buy their overprized dongles (PPC hardware). As I understand it they also never supported Toni in his work (from what he wrote on eab).

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 10:04:41
#407 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Regarding the limitations at UAE I fear Hyperion will never remove them.


You know, I ever wear my rose-tinted glasses.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 10:23:50
#408 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5873
From: Unknown

@pavlor

BTW something OT

prices for A600 have skyrocket in the meantime...

one just told that people offer more than 100 EUR for a A600 on ebay and auction not yet over

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 11:05:22
#409 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

And you thought NG flock was crazy...

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 13:37:19
#410 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@OlafS25

And you thought NG flock was crazy...


this is very likely simply os4 users bailing out to get vampire compatible hardware. everybody knows there will be models for other amigas and i actually expect an amiga user to own some amigas, so everybody will be eventually served upon what they already have. also the waiting list is long, i doubt if you buy an a600 today you will be served before an a500 version will become available.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 14:09:05
#411 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2013
From: Czech Republic

@wawa

Quote:
this is very likely simply os4 users bailing out to get vampire compatible hardware.

Perhaps you could tell us on what grounds your speculation actually stands, and why this is "very likely" as you say.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 14:20:56
#412 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Trixie
do you know another group of people who will buy anything you would throw at them for whatever money? i am vampire supporter, to a certain extent, but i am in no hurry, i can perfectly well wait till vampire will be available for the machines i currently own.

well, of course it may be also morphos users, which seems less likely, as they usually tend to be content with what they have, even though a number of them already expressed interest in vampire. it can also be some new or returning users, but in the context of this thread the assumption i made appeared to me still most likely and humorous.

Last edited by wawa on 14-Feb-2016 at 02:33 PM.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 14:37:46
#413 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2013
From: Czech Republic

@wawa

But why would OS4 users who have perfectly working hardware invest in some yellowing overpriced legacy stuff from 25 years ago? Only to buy an accelerator we don't give a fart about? This doesn't make sense.

Quote:
of course it may be also morphos users, which seem less likely, as they usually tend to be content with what they have

I can tell you (surprise, surprise!) that we also tend to be content with what we have. It is only your mind that makes you believe we're unhappy about our hardware. We're unhappy about OS updates for sure, but that's a different thing. The fact that the OS4 development lags behind isn't a reason for us to downgrade to OS3.x on a classic system- because what is the pace of OS3.x development, actually? Does it go any faster? I haven't checked of lately.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 14:51:43
#414 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:
Only to buy an accelerator we don't give a fart about?


are you sure you are talking for everybody out there? ;)
the demand for this accelerator seems actually to be quite overwhelming.

Quote:
We're unhappy about OS updates for sure, but that's a different thing.


there may be some nuance that i dont grasp, but since the hardware is bundled with the os and vice versa, i think the state of one is reflecting on the satisfaction with the other.

Quote:
Does it go any faster? I haven't checked of lately.


according to the benchmarks vampire is faster than uae with disabled jit on a fast pc. its certainly fater than uae without jit on any ppc. vampire has a very good memory throughput, actually at the limit of what is possible with the hardware involved. and this all with budget cyclone3, at very moderate, reasonable price. you might visit sites like amiga.org or so to discover that a number os4 hardware owners in fact finds this hardware as much or rather more interesting and reasonable than what they have invested into up till now.

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mbrantley 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 15:08:52
#415 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jun-2010
Posts: 544
From: Mobile, Alabama, United States

@wawa

Trixie is exactly on point, at least for me. AmigaOS running on its associated hardware, in its current released version (4.1 FE), is far more enjoyable and capable than 3.X on my classic Amiga hardware or in emulation. That I am annoyed that bugs already quashed are still plaguing paying customers for an unreasonably long period of time does not mean I am pondering any massive downgrades in capability.

@BigD

Not asking for anything that would slow the wheels of progress regarding X5000 release for more than hours or minutes. Very interested in seeing you become an X5000 owner, in fact.


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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 15:14:39
#416 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
according to the benchmarks vampire is faster than uae with disabled jit on a fast pc. its certainly fater than uae without jit on any ppc.


Most 68k applications with such high performance requirements are OS friendly. Vampire offers only fraction of Petunia/Trance speed.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 15:20:18
#417 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Most 68k applications with such high performance requirements are OS friendly. Vampire offers only fraction of Petunia/Trance speed.


at the same time the os4 hardware to run this petunia is by magnitudes more expensive than vampire. so maybe the calculation is even here in favour of the later. however, im not the right person to be convinced against vampire, you should turn at the audience that impatiently lines up to get one.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 15:26:31
#418 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
im not the right person to be convinced against vampire


Convince? I welcome Vampire dvelopement - it is the fastest CPU card since PowerUP hardware.

Quote:
at the same time the os4 hardware to run this petunia is by magnitudes more expensive than vampire.


Well, new OS4 hardware is now not for sale, so only WinUAE remains - even nearly 5 years old computer I use right now offers faster 68k emulation (Petunia) under emulation (WinUAE/QEMU) than Vampire. Actual hardware would be even faster.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 15:32:03
#419 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Well, new OS4 hardware is now not for sale, so only WinUAE remains - even nearly 5 years old computer I use right now offers faster 68k emulation (Petunia) under emulation (WinUAE/QEMU) than Vampire. Actual hardware would be even faster.


why would you even want to involve os4 and petunia in 68k emulation on a pc?

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion : why no OS4FE updates since 1 year ?
Posted on 14-Feb-2016 15:42:38
#420 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9248
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
why would you even want to involve os4 and petunia in 68k emulation on a pc?


Perspective. WinUAE/OS4 configuration is slooooow in NG terms (closer to 500 MHz G3 in most applications, except memory speed intensive tasks of course), yet it beats Vampire (eg. 4x faster in 68k dnetc/OGR-NG).

When Gunnar and co compare their core with PowerPC hardware, they boast superb memory speed benchmark results. Although fast RAM is certainly nice (and helps eg. with video playback), most application benchmarks show real world performance comparable to 68060 100 MHz - cca 1/20 of native 460EX speed.

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