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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 23-Mar-2016 14:14:55
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12964
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| @Overflow
Software rendering is slow, so this is something you should avoid, and it eats CPU cycles you might have spent on something else.
Warp3D vs Warp3D Nova, well Nova will be able to do more on the GPU, so this will help programs using 3D graphics, mostly games, but there are applications that so as well like Blender.
For normal 2D programs it will make little difference, some 2D graphics is already using composition.
As always program that do not use Nova or Composition, do not benefit from it, programs has to be written to take advantage for of what you have.
It easy to decide to not use Composition, because WinUAE user don't have it, and so we end up with the least improvements. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Mar-2016 at 02:35 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Mar-2016 at 02:34 PM.
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BSzili
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 23-Mar-2016 16:41:50
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Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
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| @wawa
I guess if they went for an existing standard, like Gallium3D, they'd have had no excuse not to port Mesa too, which would have been much more work. By making their own lightweight API and an OpenGL ES2 wrapper, they essentially offloaded the work of providing a full OpenGL implementation to the community _________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
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wawa
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 23-Mar-2016 17:12:31
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Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
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| @BSzili
Quote:
I guess if they went for an existing standard, like Gallium3D, they'd have had no excuse not to port Mesa too, which would have been much more work. By making their own lightweight API and an OpenGL ES2 wrapper, they essentially offloaded the work of providing a full OpenGL implementation to the community |
this would be an unfortunate choice, exactly the opposite of what should be done, because the community will do exactly nothing about it, except maybe the appointed and particularly skilled individuals like daytona, maybe you or few mostly aros developers i had to do with. also introducing a "lightweight" solution means it will be limited, a subset of standard, as minigl was. e demos provided so far do not highlight any particular groundbreaking features, so this assumption seems to be justified.
nevertheless i think rather, that warp3d update has been decided upon (rather obvious) conclusion, that gallium for os4, at the current pace of "development" may never come, and the customer must be supplied with another stop gap solution, that will eventually grow into a standard. this approach must have been decided upon long time ago, and this is probably not a coincidence announcing it these days in the middle of complete silence what concerns os4 matters.
the problem is that even if the things announced in the spring are going to be eventually finally delivered, like timberwolf or the memory management extension that came last year, their impact of usability and development of the system remains to be next to nothing.
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BSzili
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 23-Mar-2016 17:41:49
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 16-Nov-2013 Posts: 447
From: Unknown | | |
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| @wawa Don't be fooled by the underwhelming demos. Since Warp3D Nova is all about shaders, and it includes a GLSL compiler, its on par with what you can do with OpenGL ES 2. With the promised wrapper it will be source compatible too. After that they can say "here's the API, developers just have to take advantage of it". How many developers who are interested porting or developing games and 3D software own the necessary hardware is a another matter.
If I were them I'd get Regal ported along with the GLES2 wrapper. It doesn't really matter what's under the hood, nobody will be impressed by GLGears and a rotating cube, even if it's implemented using shaders. On the other hand, if they had OpenGL via Regal, they could show off OGL 1.x games running much faster using H/W transformations, even if they are not using shaders at all.
_________________ This is just like television, only you can see much further. |
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wawa
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 0:09:32
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
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| @BSzili
Quote:
Don't be fooled by the underwhelming demos |
im not. simply we dont know how much of the opengl es2 standard has been actually implemented in warp3d nova. we relay here on what have been reported by the vendors and on what is to be seen in videos. and this isnt much so far.Last edited by wawa on 24-Mar-2016 at 12:10 AM.
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ne_one
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 0:54:20
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 13-Jun-2005 Posts: 905
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| @Overflow
Quote:
I guess what Im asking about is the direct impact performancewise of Tabor with or without Nova. |
Unfortunately, I think many people have viewed this announcement as an enhancement rather than as an enabling technology.
Nova will make the Tabor more capable but if you really want a capable high performance system, the CPU and GPU will need to be advanced and the software will need to take advantage of it.
Either way, it's a positive step forward that creates opportunities. |
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ne_one
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 1:05:05
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Joined: 13-Jun-2005 Posts: 905
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| @wawa
Quote:
this is probably not a coincidence announcing it these days in the middle of complete silence what concerns os4 matters |
Quote:
the problem is that even if the things announced in the spring are going to be eventually finally delivered... |
It's a bit of a mixed bag but announcing and demonstrating the work in an advanced state is an encouraging and welcome step.
Increasingly it seems that A-EON is subsidizing most efforts. Perhaps it's time for them to emerge at the forefront.
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Hans
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 1:25:48
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5116
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @BSzili
Quote:
BSzili wrote: @wawa Don't be fooled by the underwhelming demos... |
Hehe. Those "demos" are the Warp3D Nova SDK examples. Their primary task isn't to impress, but to serve as example code for developers (and double as test programs for driver developers). I see that Trevor skipped the "HelloTriangle" demo that would have shown a multi-coloured triangle in all its glory.
I'm grateful to Kevin Saunders for creating the Warp3D Nova logo model, and working within the limitations of my Wavefront OBJ loader. Without his work you'd be looking at some programmer art.
Hans
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tlosm
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 9:31:48
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2755
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Hans
for me are impressive ... just because works . before was nothing 
im only courious about the use of cpu during that demos. On LinuxPPC side only Glx gears use really huge cpu in vblank_mode=0 and GPU start spinning fans like are running the last Unreal Engine 4 game. Im pretty sure your library are more optimized compared the Gallium/Mesa OpenGLES 2 on LinuxPPC _________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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olegil
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 18:55:16
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Joined: 22-Aug-2003 Posts: 5900
From: Work | | |
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| @tlosm
Did you just go like "use all resources for this 3D rendering thing" and then you got surprised that it used a lot of resources? _________________ This weeks pet peeve: Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean. |
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tlosm
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 24-Mar-2016 21:58:32
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2755
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @olegil
yes ... surprized to have 3 gears just doing 1900 fps on a 6570HD
same glxgears on a oldest 7800gtx on Macosx 10,5 Leopard doing 10.000 fps Last edited by tlosm on 24-Mar-2016 at 10:04 PM.
_________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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Massi
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 10:16:25
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Joined: 2-Feb-2011 Posts: 628
From: Rome, Italy | | |
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| @tlosm
Ciao,
really big gap even compared to a quite old Mac (2009 ?).
Accidenti siamo messi cosi' male? 
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 11:37:04
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 11:40:00
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
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| @Massi
Edit: Double post, oops! But since I have this space anyway, I take the opportunity to add that his GeForce 7800 card is of the same age as his computer...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_7_series Last edited by TRIPOS on 25-Mar-2016 at 11:46 AM. Last edited by TRIPOS on 25-Mar-2016 at 11:45 AM.
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Massi
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 12:41:07
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Joined: 2-Feb-2011 Posts: 628
From: Rome, Italy | | |
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| @TRIPOS
OK thanks for the info. This technological gap is frankly embarrassing.
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wawa
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 13:46:15
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Massi
Quote:
This technological gap is frankly embarrassing. |
ten years apart.. it might look similar to a comparison between zx81 and amiga1200, but lets be fair. the mac is a higher clock four core machine and the system is taking advantage of it. considering this both, the frame rate difference being a factor 5 looks actually virtually even on both sytems, a better result than id expect, in fact.Last edited by wawa on 25-Mar-2016 at 01:46 PM.
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tlosm
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 19:54:57
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2755
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Massi
nope bettere explain
Glxgears Quad G5 (2006) Linux PPC Radeonhd 4650 1400/1450 fps Linux PPC RadeonHD 6570 1550/1600 fps OSx Leopard PPC 10.5 9950/10.000 fps su una vecchia 7800gtx 512mb (2005)
AmigaOne X5000 Linux PPC RadeonHD 6570 1980/2010 fps (il pcie 2.0 aiuta)
Linux x86 6570 hd 8550 FPS
Last edited by tlosm on 25-Mar-2016 at 07:55 PM.
_________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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Massi
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 20:38:52
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 2-Feb-2011 Posts: 628
From: Rome, Italy | | |
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| @tlosm
OK. I don' t know how Glxgears is done internally and how your tests are executed, I am just guessing it is supposed to stress the GPU rather than the CPU (OSX and Linux should also have SMP).
Well Mac seems very optimized, despite the fact it is a quite old system.
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tlosm
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 25-Mar-2016 22:28:28
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2755
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Massi
Only one core is used in all os and all architectures. Just better drivers on x86 and old osx ppc some parts was in asm and drivers was made by nvidia and amd (for linux x86 and osx) Last edited by tlosm on 25-Mar-2016 at 10:29 PM.
_________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 26-Mar-2016 10:41:45
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
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