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      /  Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
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Kronos 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 8:44:23
#241 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2204
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Even if signed, won't say a thing about wether it was Amino's to give away in the 1st place.

Cloaonto's licence dates back to GateWay maybe even ESCOM times.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 9:27:37
#242 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 825
From: Arizona

@Kronos

Quote:
Even if signed, won't say a thing about wether it was Amino's to give away in the 1st place. Cloaonto's licence dates back to GateWay maybe even ESCOM times.


I really don't care who owned it to begin with. Unless Hyperion has a copy of the aforementioned document signed by the judge and recorded by the court, it's just another worthless piece of paper that proves nothing. If Hyperion can't produce the signed and recored document then Hyperion has no claim on anything in that document. It may as well be a work of fiction.

If I were throwing around such a document as proof of anything I'd make sure it was a court certified copy with the judge's signature and the date that the court entered the order into public record. Without those things, here in the USA, that document is worthless and it could have been written last week.

With so many vultures laying claim to the Amiga's carcass, one would assume that Hyperion would produce a signed and recorded copy.....not what was linked to earlier. Failing to do so only brings more doubt as to the voracity of Hyperion's claims. You'd think that would be the last thing they'd want since they've decided to sell "official" copies of OS3.

Not that it really matters. I can't imagine Hyperion making any money off of OS3 sales. Most classic users already own a license and new users who want copies for their Vampires or WinUAE will continue to get their copies from the same place they've gone to for years....the internet.

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bennymee 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 11:50:45
#243 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 583
From: Netherlands

@ferrels

I sold 2 copies of 3.5 locally, gone in a few days. But offcourse that says nothing, but there should be a dozen of new Amigans returning back to the machine with the Vampire cards.

Anyway the profit for Hyperion should be high, as the cd of 3.9 is years old and just needs replication ;)

Last edited by bennymee on 14-Aug-2017 at 11:56 AM.

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jorit2 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 12:07:24
#244 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 235
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Ben,

Thanks for your not so veiled threat through PM about taking legal action against me through my former employer.
If you want to take action through my former, current or future employer, I'm sure you can make up loads of arguments that are relevant to them.

I'm having trouble to determine how that was on topic though, in line with the discussion here.

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 14-Aug-2017 at 12:27 PM.
Last edited by jorit2 on 14-Aug-2017 at 12:20 PM.
Last edited by jorit2 on 14-Aug-2017 at 12:15 PM.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 13:25:47
#245 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 844
From: Vancouver, Canada


< munching on popcorn watching monkeys argue over peanuts >


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eder 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 13:49:19
#246 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 280
From: Unknown

@gregthecanuck

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 13:55:25
#247 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@gregthecanuck

I'm guessing you must have a huge stash of popcorn to go with all the drama

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 14:43:58
#248 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@bennymee

OS3.9 is owned by Hague and Partner! I'm confused! Surely this OS3.1 stuff is all owned by Cloanto and the OS3.5 and OS3.9 stuff is owned by Hague and Partner? Suddenly because the Vampire is going into mass production and there's money around Hyperion are sniffing at profits!!! Hyperion got the rights to use Workbench 3.1 sources to port to PPC and now they think they're the only ones that can EVER alter and sell Classic Workench / Amiga OS? Hyperion have always been better lawyers than at courting the community and this will do them no favours.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 14:49:44
#249 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Cloanto aren't throwing stones at all. They own the Amiga copyrights (at least up to the Commodore "Checkmark Branch" 3.1, but most cerainly all the way up to their 3.9 remake "Workbench 3.X" as well).


Wow, so Cloanto 'remade' OS3.9, nice I guess they negotiated deals with the coders that retained ownership of some of the code in OS3.9? That was more than Hyperion were able to do for AmigaOS 4.x.

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:05:18
#250 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 39
From: Unknown

@jorit2

To the extent that it matters, I have flagged your post as a "personal attack" because I made NO SUCH threat.

Which we established afterwards. So give it a rest please.

All of these personal attacks ...

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:09:42
#251 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 39
From: Unknown

@BigD

Correction: we were able to salvage most of 3.5 and 3.9 we decided was worth salvaging or where we could reach the author.

Parts of 3.9 were done in house by H&P and those parts (mainly the reworked prefs editors) were withheld because H&P were in a dispute with Amiga Inc. and wanted to hold on to this IP as a bargaining chip.

No deal was ever worked out and 3.9 was released without approval from Amiga Inc. As was Amithlon/AmigaXL.

I believe the "cease and desist" letters from McEwen and Reed Smiths are still searachable on the internet.

I have a copy of them.

Anicient history.

Last edited by HyperionHolding on 14-Aug-2017 at 03:10 PM.

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jorit2 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:09:58
#252 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 235
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Let's just agree to disagree, including all that has been said in private comm

Evert

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:10:27
#253 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 39
From: Unknown

@jorit2

Fine with me.

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olsen 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:16:48
#254 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 718
From: Germany

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

WolfpackN64 wrote:
@gregthecanuck

I'm guessing you must have a huge stash of popcorn to go with all the drama

As for the drama, by now it certainly has become much "hotter" than the thing which should by rights be the more appropriate focus of attention: the Amiga's present and future. There's the heat and then there's the light...

I can understand that. There's not much going on in the area of Amiga's present and future, hasn't been for years. We all, myself included, have come to take for granted what the Amiga represents and how it fared over the years. There has been (politely speaking) a very long period of not a lot of interesting stuff happening. Things settled down, became "boring". That's the light slowly dimming.

Compared to that, the drama in the wings is exponentially more interesting. Every little change (for bad or for worse) invites scrutiny. Then there are the deep and serious discussions about the legitimacy of the players involved. Finally, the characters of the play are conveniently classified as the fools, the villains, the heroes, the victims, and even combinations thereof.

I can understand that, too. Viewed impartially, the actions of the players in the market are exceptionally hard to rationalize. We all try to make sense of what we learn, we speculate about the meaning and the consequences and we discuss this at length with others. That's the heat, which by now appears to be increasing on its own accord, without the need for light to come forth.

Personally, I'd rather be working on turning up the light some more, it's about time. Changes are coming, driven by new hardware.

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spud101 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:33:59
#255 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 61
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Since Ben seems very talkative in this thread. I'm wondering Ben what do you see / is your strategy regarding the Amiga future.

Do you even have some wider community benefit in your mission, which I think will require less battling and more joint efforts between the last few "companies" standing, or do you really see a commercially valid future just for Hyperion (+A-EON maybe) at the, IMO, cost of both the community and destroying the other companies. This later strategy really seems a downward spiral, by frustrating your potential market I guess no market will be left in the end.

I can see in a mainstream market you can still use the Jack Tramiel strategy, business is war, but we're absolutely not in such a situation...

I was really naive to think that those topics debated by e.g. Trevor & Mike at some of the past Amiga events about gathering all IP together and do something together was more than just wishful thinking and that maybe even Hyperion would join an initiative like this. But alas, this seems nothing but a dream.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:37:05
#256 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@olsen

We've discussed this before.
It's a matter of perspective.

I am not referring to any one individual here. It extends beyond the participants on the last few pages of this thread. If you want to keep a positive thought....just know that what goes on in private can be quite different than these public displays, which often start at 3 or 4 in the morning. That should tell you much about "state of mind".

Best Wishes,

#6

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:37:13
#257 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
No deal was ever worked out and 3.9 was released without approval from Amiga Inc. As was Amithlon/AmigaXL.


I guess it's more important to point to the illegality of Hague and Partner shipping a beloved product that lots of Classic users still use than actually clarify WHY your Amiga Inc. PPC licence gives you the right to update Workbench / Amiga OS 3.1 on 68k machines?!

Last edited by BigD on 14-Aug-2017 at 03:37 PM.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 15:51:49
#258 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@olsen


Even though I only recently encountered the platform (heck, Commodore went bankrupt a year before a was born), I can certainly imagine why there's so much scrutiny for every action surrounding the Amiga and it's future. Heck, I come from the Mac, which has been evolving from a user and developer friendly platform into a fashion statement, which frustrates me to no end (coupled with the fact they keep re-inventing the wheel just because they can and never look to make the standards we have better).

Given the fact that the Amiga platform is fragmented, that makes it even more difficult (although every major implementation seems interesting to me). The whole IP situation is just a mess though.

If it were me, the IP would be put in an independent holding company where every major player has a say in it, but that's maybe a bit utopian.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 17:14:55
#259 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9090
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
I guess it's more important to point to the illegality of Hague and Partner shipping a beloved product that lots of Classic users still use than actually clarify


I think Ben´s memory is not correct there: OS3.9 release itself was fine, but dispute arose around legality of Amithlon/AmigaXL. It is not that hard to search for relevant references - if anybody is interested.

Original OS4 project should have been lead by H/P (like 3.5/3.9), but dispute over Amithlon/AmigaXL changed this.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 17:39:06
#260 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@pavlor

The Amithlon disaster is way too big a topic, but users can search for nicks @umisef and @DrBombcrater with relevant keywords "amithlon" "Friedens" "Harald" "Hyperion" etc.

There are at least two complete long retellings step-by-step from the author here on AW. There's also the long discertation against it from Hyperion on ann.lu. I'm just not in the mood to post the direct links today. heh.

enter search parameters here

Bah. here's one anyway:

Bernie's story

earlier retelling from old website

#6

Last edited by number6 on 14-Aug-2017 at 05:54 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 14-Aug-2017 at 05:45 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 14-Aug-2017 at 05:40 PM.

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