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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Software
      /  Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
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Snorg 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 17:50:29
#561 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@AP
Quote:
the authors of the software gave Hyperion the permission to sell their work


The authors of the *updates*, yes, but said authors could not give permission to distribute code that they don't own or have an appropriate license for. Had Hyperion packaged this as an update to existing Amiga OS 3.1 installations, the issue of selling Amiga OS < v4 could have been avoided.

However it remains, barring any new information coming to light, that Hyperion does not have the right to use the 3.1 source code for anything but development and sales of OS 4 and higher.

On the other hand, in defense of 3.1.4, Amiga Inc et al. have been supremely useless. I'm all for second (and even seventy-times-seventh) chances, but it's not like anyone else has done any upgrading of the OS - including Cloanto.

Cloanto and Hyperion should come to some sort of (conciliatory) agreement, and end this nonsense immediately. In the meantime, anyone who sells 3.1.4 is asking for trouble.

Last edited by Snorg on 11-Nov-2018 at 05:52 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 19:44:04
#562 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@Snorg

Quote:
barring any new information coming to light


Another "wise one"... Settlement Agreement is public, why not read it?

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AP 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 20:29:20
#563 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 435
From: Vienna/Austria

@Snorg: You should really read the Settlement Agreement. According to the agreement Hyperion HAS the right to develop/update and sell AmigaOS3.1, even when its not related to AmigaOS 4.

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hth313 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 20:42:55
#564 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 152
From: Delta, Canada

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
Another "wise one"... Settlement Agreement is public, why not read it?


You keep repeating this...

I have read the settlement agreement and probably have a similar interpretation as Snorg. Hyperion may use 3.1 source for the development of 4.x and beyond. Amiga Inc is the owner of 3.1. (In my mind 3.1.4 is not anything like 4.x or beyond.)

What a court would rule based on it, I have no idea. I do not intend to spend time on this. It is for the court to interpret and decide on it now, as the parties that signed that document cannot agree on what they have signed.

People will obviously read the document differently and may come to a different conclusion on what it means.

I am happy about 3.1.4 because it injects interest into AmigaOS 3 and it is a pity it has to turn out this way. I hope it is really resolved, hopefully in a good way.

As a result of all this, my interest in AROS has increased a lot.

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Snorg 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 20:46:17
#565 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Clearly there are some willing to wager significant money contrariwise. Regardless, I was referring to Hyperion's own statement. In my (admittedly brief) search, I've not located the complete agreement - if there's a link handy, I would appreciate it.

In any case, there's no need for a smear, right?

Last edited by Snorg on 11-Nov-2018 at 08:54 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 21:15:20
#566 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6257
From: Unknown

@hth313

Quote:
As a result of all this, my interest in AROS has increased a lot.


unfortunately many still consider it a last resort in spite of what is happening with the amiga ip. must be really relaxing to come back home at the evening and be concerned with the legal issues of others..

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AP 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 22:30:27
#567 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 435
From: Vienna/Austria

@hth313

Quote:
I have read the settlement agreement and probably have a similar interpretation as Snorg. Hyperion may use 3.1 source for the development of 4.x and beyond. Amiga Inc is the owner of 3.1.


That's not true, Hyperion is allowed to develop, modify, market and sell AmigaOS 3.1 in any form and on any platform, "including but NOT limited to making AmigaOS 4 available to the public". Read again

Last edited by AP on 11-Nov-2018 at 10:36 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 23:33:28
#568 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@AP

Quote:

AP wrote:
@TRIPOS: As I paid for it on a legal distibution channel


“Legal distribution channel”, OMG...



As said above; most real, old-timer, genuine and trustworthy Amiga dealers stay miles clear of this mess ATM for rather obvious reasons.

A few didn’t seem to grasp the meaning of online digital download dealers being forced to withdraw the contents because of the piracy. Which means that they are either stupid, or that they actually support or at least condone selling pirated Amiga opperating systems.

Nobody should be that horny for money to sell their Amiga soul and ethichs for a few dollars.

People should avoid these shady “dealers” in the future. Don’t support Amiga piracy. Don’t support the pirates.




Quote:
the authors of the software gave Hyperion the permission to sell their work


1) It’s not only “the authors” work, they are not the only copyright owners, it’s simply not theirs to sell

2) The other owner (no matter how you envision them; in the shape of Amino, Amiga Inc or Cloanto, they all have the same stand point) clearly say this is piracy

3) “The authors” are obviously extremely aware of this. Hence they have publicly washed their hands from actually bringing it to market, they point at Hyperion for this, and they are not getting any money for it, none whatsoever, they have been clear about that publicly. While they might be happy about the code/product itself, they are obviously distancing themselves publicly from the actual marketing of it at this point, and they stay clear of any monetary rewards from its sales. Dodging future law suits.

Think about that.


Quote:
I assume that I bought legal software.


Maybe you could try to justify it as “bought in good faith” to yourself and your conscience, to improve your night sleep?

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g01df1sh 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 23:45:05
#569 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1667
From: UK

@TRIPOS

I wish someone with a lot of money would come along and buy all these arse holes out and get Amiga all under one roof its all to fragmented now. Amiga inc done nothing to help Amiga and the community in years Cloanto have not done a great deal either really selling Amiga forever with very miner tweaks which I don't think where developed by them either like the addition of PPC emulation for OS4.

Well done Hyperion , Amiga inc Cloanto for screwing the Amiga community yet again. Get your act together and work with each other not against each other. Carry on like this and you will all loose..

Last edited by g01df1sh on 11-Nov-2018 at 11:47 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 23:48:17
#570 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@Snorg

There are pages after pages in the current legal documents describing exactly how Hyperion breached the settlement time after time again, in quite many ways over the years, acted upon it in bad faith, etc, all in all many pages of arguments and explanations to why “the settlement agreement” is really to be considered null and void. Something for the Jury to take a bite at. And fact is that it’s so well written and easy to follow that it will be bery easy for them to digest.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 11-Nov-2018 23:53:17
#571 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Cloanto hasn’t screwed anyone. They are in fact exactly what you wish for. You should take some time and educate yourself on them, much info here on this site alone, including a couple of transcripts from presentations put together by yours truly.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 0:07:07
#572 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1667
From: UK

@TRIPOS

Its all of them that are ruining whats left of Amiga. Cloanto have license for roms and maybe os 3.1 but they have not updated 3.1 since commodore days. Then someone else does and then it all gets nasty...

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Rob 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 8:27:30
#573 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5849
From: S.Wales

@g01df1sh

In fairness Cloanto have their 3.x ROM and updated disk sets but I don't think they have source level access so they can't do much more than add third party patches to the ROM and some Y2K fixes and support for larger drives.

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Jose 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 9:01:50
#574 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 934
From: Unknown

"...
Nobody should be that horny for money to sell their Amiga soul and ethichs for a few dollars.
People should avoid these shady “dealers” in the future. Don’t support Amiga piracy. Don’t support the pirates."

Do you really think making ADF's from floppies or a CD/DVD image is that difficult ? Amiga users are a bit smarter, I hope :)

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José

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 11:09:17
#575 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
@TRIPOS

Cloanto have license for roms and maybe os 3.1


Again, you really need to update yourself if that's all you think Cloanto have. In fact, they have been working tirelessly for 2-3 decades to accomplish exactly what you describe - collecting everything under the same umbrella. Patents are no longer an issue, but copyrights and trademarks. They could be the owner of the amiga.com domain for what I know.

Read what they say about it here: https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=42002&forum=2&post_id=800409

If you read those transcripts from years back (pictures seem broken for some reason, sorry about that), as well as the "a discourse on possible futures" you will see their ambitions, and that anything is on the table, including open sourcing the OS.


Quote:
but they have not updated 3.1 since commodore days.


Not true at all, they have created and put to market "Workbench 3.X" (note the capital X) which de-facto is a parallel and improved 3.9.


Quote:
Then someone else does and then it all gets nasty...


It's not the update itself that makes it nasty, it's the fact that Hyperion publishes it illegally, using trademarks illegally, etc. It could be published by rightful copyright owners instead, and then everything would be fine. And maybe this will happen eventually? The authors seems aware of this, hence they kind of stay clear of it, don't take money from sales, etc. They don't rock the boat too much.


@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@g01df1sh

In fairness Cloanto have their 3.x ROM and updated disk sets but I don't think they have source level access so they can't do much more than add third party patches to the ROM and some Y2K fixes and support for larger drives.


Come on, everyone has the sources, don't you? The point is not that Michael Battilana or Bill McEwen (or whoever) would do the actual coding themselves. That has never been the case, not even when Cloanto created Workbench 3.X, instead they entered parallel deals with the involved coders directly for their work on 3.9 to circumvent Haage&Partner, post-mortem, resulting in an OS existing in parallel that even has later/newer versions of some of the components. They could enter a deal with Olaf Barthel etc in a similar way. As could they do with OS4. The OS4 devs seems unpaid, that whole situation seems locked-down, and it could turn out that Cloanto in the end will hold the key to the future of OS4 as well once "the Settlement Agreement" finally is declared null and void. Hyperion probably don't own jack sh!t code/copyright-wise. Testimonies of unpaid developers and the general stalled status of OS4 say that's the case. Hyperion has never owned anything Amiga, not trademarks, not copyrights, only publishing rights, and that could be about to be cancelled, so...

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Snorg 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 12:05:12
#576 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

Debt makes people desperate - even Hi Toro experienced this. I believe, generally speaking, the people involved had good intentions. Then the debts started to pile up and development costs weren't being paid. Then people started pointing fingers. Things were done and said that destroyed partnerships, and I'm sure friendships, too.

It may be possible to have a commercially viable product in some form, but dragging one another into court is not going to end well - likely for anyone.

Signing off.

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Rob 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 13:42:06
#577 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5849
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS

I don't have the source code. Do you?

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bison 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 15:25:52
#578 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1520
From: N-Space

Several people on this thread have mentioned "The Settlement Agreement" -- could someone post a link so that we know we're all talking about the same document. All I've been able to find is Hyperion's account of the agreement.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 15:53:13
#579 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@bison

2009 Settlement Agreement (from justia)

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 12-Nov-2018 16:09:18
#580 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10832
From: In the village

@TRIPOS & pavlor

Since you represent opposite sides in the debate.

Point is...if settlement agreement is made null and void (as requested) on other points, then the argument about 3.x becomes moot.

#6

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