@BigD

You again are wrong...

Hyperion contacted the developer and proposed 3.1.4 because they obviously saw a chance to make money from the small classic boom. That this activities (and the try of hyperion to get trademarks) created the storm we have now is nothing you can blame on Thomas and Olsen.

@OlafS25

Yes I can. Thomas and Olaf didn't have to work for them. The Manhattan Project scientists were complicit in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bomb blasts despite not being responsible for the decision to use the atomic bombs. Anyone with half a brain can see that the release of OS3.1.4 would be seen as an aggressive move on Cloanto's market never mind the trademark/IP considerations!

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@hth313

Quote:

hth313 wrote: @kolla AmigaOS 4 is a commercial product too. If Roadshow is part of it, then I would assume it is part of that commercial offer and the developer should be given money from AmigaOS 4 sales.

Around 2012/2013 Roadshow, which until then had been an all-exclusive integrated key component of OS4, was suddenly released as a stand-alone product on the market. 68k Amiga even including a MorphOS version. Many were astonished by this peculiar development of things back then. Many asked “why?” But today things are perhaps a bit more clear...

@BigD

so you say they should have known better than the owner who also is attorney?

Hyperion obviously saw the chance to get a big market share of the growing classic market. And then you say Hyperion is not responsible but the assigned developers who even did it for free?

Sorry...

@BigD

Hint:

Look at when and about what this thread started.


Hyperion stepping onto Cloanto‘s toes started much earlier.

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@Kronos

Yeah, they released a vanilla 3.1 which is now hard to get hold of. Even less excuse for developers not to give Hyperion a wide berth and avoid working for them. The negativeness they've fostered is destroying the Amiga's last strength; it's community!

Last edited by BigD on 16-Nov-2018 at 12:14 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

fostered is destroying the Amiga's last strength; it's community!

Amiga community is fighting against itself for the last 20 years. We don´t need any company (be it Amiga, Hyperion, Cloanto, Genesi, H/P or A-Eon) to do this dirty work for us.

@pavlor

Quote:

We don´t need any company (be it Amiga, Hyperion, Cloanto, Genesi, H/P or A-Eon) to do this dirty work for us.

but they apparently like to help.

@pavlor

Quote:

We don't need any company (be it Amiga, Hyperion, Cloanto, Genesi, H/P or A-Eon) to do this dirty work for us.

My personal list of "dirty work" Amiga companies would be somewhat shorter than that.

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@BigD

Quote:

Thomas and Olaf didn't have to work for them. The Manhattan Project scientists were complicit in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bomb blasts despite not being responsible for the decision to use the atomic bombs.

A little inappropriate perhaps...?

This whole debacle is murky at best and the outcome is uncertain. Hyperion could prevail.

Thomas and Olaf surely contributed their development work on the assumption that they weren't violating any laws or restrictions. Demonizing them by association or due to lack of diligence is just plain silly.

It's not clear what the end game is in any of this but it's the community that will suffer. It would be tough to find any other industry beset by such ineptitude and charlatanism.

@ne_one

Quote:

A little inappropriate perhaps...?

OlafS25 needs quite vivid illustrations it seems to get the point across. If their free time and minor bug fixing is used as the final blow to turn the jury Hyperion's way and hence destroy Cloanto or alternatively swing their decision to decide Hyperion's guilt and sink them instead then they will be partly responsible IMHO.

Hey at least they had fun messing around with 25 year old source code! Chance of a life time for Amiga coders no doubt. I'm just over the moon they made the bundled printer drivers better than TurboPrint and CrossDos support better than CrossDos7 It's like all my Christmases rolled into one and they only had to risk the Tabor launch, the futures of both Hyperion and Cloanto and bring about the resurrection of Itec in order to make it possible!

"Only Thomas and Olaf make it possible!"

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Quote:

BigD wrote: OlafS25 needs quite vivid illustrations it seems to get the point across. If their free time and minor bug fixing is used as the final blow to turn the jury Hyperion's way and hence destroy Cloanto or alternatively swing their decision to decide Hyperion's guilt and sink them instead then they will be partly responsible IMHO.

What used to worry me was that I doubt the trial will solve anything, given the past history.
(That is past tense because I have given up on it and just let it go.)

It is like some of these Amiga companies do not need to follow any normal business rules. In a normal world a company that is not earning money go out of business and are perhaps restructured if there is any value in it.

But in this (post-Commodore) Amiga galaxy, companies cannot go bankrupt, they can be sleeping seemingly forever and suddenly spring to life again. They are totally immune to ordinary monetary issues, and need not to pay anyone any salaries. Sometimes they have money, sometimes not, and no-one understands a thing what is going on, and it just goes on forever.

I think there must be a rift to a another reality open here.

Last edited by hth313 on 17-Nov-2018 at 01:32 AM.

On a serious note I wish all company infighting would stop somehow and AmigaOS new features and upgrades for Classic Amigas and PowerPC Amigas could continue at a faster pace. Enough money flowing to lawyers who never owned an Amiga and instead money should flow to Amiga hardware/software developers. This might be a dream but it would be great for users and developers of the platform.

What does everyone think?

A 100,000 to a Million active users would be great for the platform. This could be on Virtual Machine Amiga solutions and hardware based solutions.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 17-Nov-2018 at 04:57 AM.

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@AP

Quote:

Quote: Does repeating this small part of the Grant section of the 2009 Settlement Agreement, while ignoring the full context and specific portions where it also says "Solely for the purposes of marketing, distributing and making available AmigaOS 4" (which in 2009 was Hyperion's interpretation too, per its own press release), make it more true? And ignoring this small, but very important part at the beginning of the agreement is the better way or more true? It´s (luckily) not my job to decide who is right or wrong in this legal mess.

I never suggested that it should be ignored. To the contrary, I am saying that no part of the settlement agreement should be ignored.

Section (b) and section (c) have to be read together to interpret the grant of rights. The settlement agreement can only be taken as a whole, that's how the intentions best manifest themselves.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: It's like all my Christmases rolled into one and they only had to risk the Tabor launch, the futures of both Hyperion and Cloanto and bring about the resurrection of Itec in order to make it possible! "Only Thomas and Olaf make it possible!"

Lets just say 3.14 never happened, and Tabor would somehow be ready and a huge success in 2019.


Guess what, Itec/KMOS/??? would have come out of the woodworks on that occasion instead, causing even more havoc relating to all things OS4.....

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@Kronos

No I don't think so,

initially there was buyback agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, this gave Hyperion ownership of 3.1 source code for development of AmigaOS4.x and up, they got settlement agreement gave Hyperion the right to use brand names, but did not give Hyperion ownership of the brand names. Anything Hyperion does above or equal to 4.0 is there for safe.

But when start working on Classic Amiga OS3.1 they did get license to use brand name. as not covered by settlement agreement.

The real mess now is that different company's own different things.

1.2/1.3 cloanto clams to have enquired right to.

3.1 was transferred to Hyperion, but not back to Amiga Inc.

3.5 /3.9 was owned by H&P, cloanto clams to have gained rights to.

AmigaOS/AmigaONE/Boing Logo owned by Amiga Inc.

Workbench brand owned by Cloanto, because it printed on some floppy disks.

Checkmark logo owned by Nedfield NV/Tulip some or all Commdore brands was sold to Yeahronimo Media Ventures, and is now registered to " C= Holdings B.V."

https://www.trademarkia.com/c-commodore-85832898.html
So if you wanted to have checkmark then Hyperion had to pay money to Amiga Inc and "C= Holdings B.V." but by not using the checkmark, they only need to pay to "Amiga Inc" / Aminio. But they where hoping to avoid paying anything.
The money of sales seams to go to lawyers and holding companies owning trademarks and not to developers that did the work.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Nov-2018 at 11:13 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Nov-2018 at 11:08 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Nov-2018 at 10:58 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

The argument would have been something long the lines of:

"Hyperion violated the settlement by providing 1.3 with OS4.1 and releasing a modified 3.1 (the one where they just changed the copyright) and have therefore no right to release OS4.1 for Tabor"

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@ne_one

Thomas knew exactly what he was entering into with this 3.1.4 adventure, and Olaf is the type of person who perhaps too easily say yes. It was not Hyperion cobtacring them, it was them contacting Hyperion. They were both warned that it would end up in a legal battle, but Thomas is the type of guy who is always right, and claimed everyone speaking against his "beliefs" are trolls. Kinda like some other German I know of...

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@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga The argument would have been something long the lines of: "Hyperion violated the settlement by providing 1.3 with OS4.1 and releasing a modified 3.1 (the one where they just changed the copyright) and have therefore no right to release OS4.1 for Tabor"

Has there been a cease and desist on the selling of licensed copies of OS4.1 FE with the X5000 then? Amigaone machines continue to be sold and developed with no direct interference from Itec or Cloanto. Only the Workbench 3.1 and now OS3.1.4 release have jeopardised the 2009 settlement, the Tabor and the Amigaone project in general. There WOULD have been no issue with the Tabor release once the sound drivers and component redesign wad finished, now I'm not so sure.

Last edited by BigD on 17-Nov-2018 at 12:45 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

So if you wanted to have checkmark then Hyperion had to pay money to Amiga Inc and "C= Holdings B.V."

It would be quite insane to pay for a 1980s-style logo that already looked cheesy when it was first used. By today's standards, the Amiga Checkmark logo is a laughable piece of graphics. Only an idiot would fork out money on this.

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