I just wish people could do something about the real challenges rather concentrating on dressing up a dead horse. Amiga software developers left, in hordes. How do one attract developers back to the platform? You listen to them and provide the tools and conditions that the software developers want.

The topic here is OS3, and none of the developers, nor the so called owners, have any interest whatsoever in pushing the platform forward, beyond being their pet or trophy. There isn't lack of consensus, there is lack of will and skill.

Last edited by kolla on 25-Nov-2018 at 08:40 PM.

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@kolla

Quote:

The topic here is OS3, and none of the developers, nor the so called owners, have any interest whatsoever in pushing the platform forward, beyond being their pet or truphy. There isn't lack of consensus, there is lack of will and skill.

We are discussing the (major) release of OS v3.1.4, Thomas and Olaf (and others) have pushed the platform forward.

By the time it took you to write all your posts, you could have learned C and contributed some code.

We don't need a single guiding force (although that could help) but rather willing people contributing to solve the "paper cuts" and the major gaps in our beloved OS and hardware. So, thank you Thomas and Olaf and many others who just do that regularly despite the "nay sayers".

Just today, SpeedGeek released FastCache040+, why don't you perform some benchmarks, @kolla, to inform the community of the pros and cons of this new patch? Dare?

Last edited by tygre on 25-Nov-2018 at 07:45 PM.

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Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@tygre

Why don't you ask Thomas about the work of SpeedGeek and his benchmarks?

See? THERE is the problem.

Btw, I cannot contribute code, for legal reasons.

Last edited by kolla on 25-Nov-2018 at 09:06 PM.

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@kolla

That's a very childish answer. Why should I ask Thomas? He has contributed a lot already!

And what legal reasons could prevent you to contribute code? Translations? Tests? Arts? Documentations? Wiki entries?

Last edited by tygre on 25-Nov-2018 at 09:20 PM.

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Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@tygre

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By the time it took you to write all your posts, you could have learned C and contributed some code.

Less heat, more light, please.

It is a challenge to write good code, in C or any other language.*** All the more reason we should salute those who do. Especially if they do it from the kindness of their hearts, and expect no recompense for it.

***To date I have written code in BASIC, Pascal, Modula-2, C, Java, Eiffel, Python, Cython, C++, Kotlin, C#, Ada, PHP, Nim, Oberon-07, and Modula-3, more or less in that order, possibly with some others that escape me at the moment. Some of it is actually useful and available online (Aminet, Google Play Store, others). In some it is easier to write good code than others. In none of them is it easy to write a good, non-trivial system.

Last edited by simplex on 26-Nov-2018 at 01:35 AM.

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I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@tygre

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Why should I ask Thomas?

Well, you may find it enlightening to hear what he has to say about SpeedGeek's efforts.

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He has contributed a lot already!

Yes, it seems like AmigaOS 3 has become a pet for him.

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And what legal reasons could prevent you to contribute code?

Rights, licenses and NDAs. I typically mix "illegal code" with "open source" code, the results are not distributable.

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Translations?

I do translations. Despite not having "official access" the needed .cd and .ct files, I know how to hack my way around so I now have pretty much completed both bokmål and nynorsk translations for OS 3.1.4. The official "norsk" ones that come with O 3.1.4 are crazy full of typos, plain out bad grammar and spelling, as well as quite a few Danish words. For example, "fortryde"...

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Tests?

No time for proper testing. But I have seen lots of bugs and errors, some easily re-produceable, some that I have not fond the exact pattern for. The problem is that there is no public bugs database, no way to check if I have run into a known bug or not, so my incentives to report bugs on random forums is very low.

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Arts?

I do my own arts for my own systems, and I don't use the "official" icon theme or palette etc, so what is there to contribute?

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Documentations?

There is no official public available place to put documentation, and I have no interest in working for free for Hyperion as long as AmigaOS is sold commercially. I keep my own documentation for my own systems on a need-to-do basis.

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Wiki entries?

I don't edit Amiga wiki entries anymore. I tried to fix quote a few, but they were re-edited again. Too many Amiga zealots use wikipedia for revisionism, re-creating history to fit their narrative, and in doing so render the wiki pages utterly untrustworthy and useless.

Last edited by kolla on 26-Nov-2018 at 08:53 AM.

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@ne_one

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ne_one wrote: @kolla Quote: I doupt very much that it is doable to make a cheap stand-alone with Apollo Core, unless you move out of FPGA and onto ASIC, but that requires quite an economic effort and guaranteed sales. I seriously doubt that there is a large enough market for such a product. Relative to a market where books and cases manage to get crowdfunded for $100k at a time? The technology and the money are minor challenges.

If there's no problem why isn't there a product already? The software isn't a problem in this case, a 3.1 ROM would have been enough and 3.1 ROMs are sold all the time.

@kolla

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I would say that the consensus is quite obvious, as most developers and users have simply moved to other platforms and left amiga behind.

Actually, I was thinking of the group of people who remain, not those who have already left.

There was an Amigaworld poll a few months ago that shows how divergent remaining Amiga users are. Unfortunately, I didn't save a link. Executive summary: if you ask 100 random Amiga users "what is the best way forward," you'll get about seven broadly defined answers.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@bison

Don't ask users, ask... ahm... drumroll... SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS!!!

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@Thread

See the last post in the link below. People definitely want a classic mini console of the A500 with licensed games but as far as I can see the legal wranglings and lack of co-operation amongst the Amiga parties will again squander this chance to make an impact in the mainstream. Sad.

Metro Games Inbox: A500 Classic Mini request!

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

AROS Rom Replacements work with many games so it is possible

The "naming" is a different matter, there I do not know enough

@kolla

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Don't ask users, ask... ahm... drumroll... SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS!!!

Developers who want to make money create software that people want to buy, so it comes back to users.

Of course the dynamic is different with FOSS.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@bison

Quote:

Quote: Don't ask users, ask... ahm... drumroll... SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS!!! Developers who want to make money create software that people want to buy, so it comes back to users.

Users do not crave for the development tools and environment that software developers need to create the software that users crave for and are willing to pay for.... so I guess this isn't going anywhere :)

And keep in mind, developers are users too. But they are highly outnumbered.

Last edited by kolla on 28-Nov-2018 at 09:09 AM.

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