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PosterThread
ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 15-May-2021 15:10:57
#1341 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 269
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

It is simple.
Apple switch to unix on ppc before switch to x86.
Everything below gui was cut off.
Almost all classic Mac Os was gone.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 15-May-2021 15:13:48
#1342 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 269
From: Unknown

@Rose

Where I disagree with Trixie?

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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 15-May-2021 15:37:11
#1343 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 788
From: The Interrogative Lair

@DiscreetFX

Fat Agnus does not like being called Big Momma!

_________________
I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

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cgutjahr 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 15-May-2021 15:39:04
#1344 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 943
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:

AmigaOS 4.1 doesn't try to compete with or provide an alternative to modern OSes. I don't think it ever has.

Of course AmigaOS 4 was meant to provide an alternative to other ("modern") OSes, that's the sole reason the project was started 20 years ago. This whole "it's just a hobby!" and "support the Amiga!" nonsense was invented later, after the original project had failed to reach its goal.

Which is why the sales pitch for OS4 these days is: "it's not useful at all for getting work done, so we decided to only sell it bundled with this super-expensive desktop Workstation".

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 15-May-2021 15:46:37
#1345 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 269
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:

Source compatibility is kept as long as sources are correctly written by coders.

Not possible without tests.
Not possible without source and binary compatibility with 68k apps.
Quote:

Again, AROS is a clear proof here.

AROS is best proof that cdimauro has problems with reality.
After twenty five years of development still has not working mui.



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cdimauro 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 15-May-2021 16:03:11
#1346 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2276
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1 Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@OlafS25

It is simple.
Apple switch to unix on ppc before switch to x86.
Everything below gui was cut off.
Almost all classic Mac Os was gone.

Which is simply false: compatibility with MacOS applications was kept in the first years, even after the transition so MacOS X / Unix:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macOS_components#Classic
The Classic Environment, usually referred to as Classic, is a hardware and software abstraction layer in PowerPC versions of Mac OS X that allows most legacy applications compatible with Mac OS 9 to run on Mac OS X.

As usual, you have no clue at all of what you're talking about!

@ppcamiga1 Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:

Source compatibility is kept as long as sources are correctly written by coders.

Not possible without tests.

LOL. You also have no clue about coding. Is there something of which you really have some knowledge?

Of course, yes: this is possible even WITHOUT tests.
Quote:
Not possible without source and binary compatibility with 68k apps.

Which, as I've already said, AROS HAS from years now!
Quote:
Quote:
Again, AROS is a clear proof here.

AROS is best proof that cdimauro has problems with reality.
After twenty five years of development still has not working mui.

Again, you're talking about things that you no clue at all.

AROS' Zune isn't 100% MUI compatible, but it's largely compatible. So, it's working.

If you want to have 100% MUI compatibility on 68K you can just use the regular MUI libraries, and you have it. And that's simply because AROS 68K is source AND binary compatibile with the old Amiga o.s., so you can mix AROS and Amiga o.s. libraries and/or applications.

@cgutjahr Quote:

cgutjahr wrote:
@Trixie

Quote:

AmigaOS 4.1 doesn't try to compete with or provide an alternative to modern OSes. I don't think it ever has.

Of course AmigaOS 4 was meant to provide an alternative to other ("modern") OSes, that's the sole reason the project was started 20 years ago. This whole "it's just a hobby!" and "support the Amiga!" nonsense was invented later, after the original project had failed to reach its goal.

Which is why the sales pitch for OS4 these days is: "it's not useful at all for getting work done, so we decided to only sell it bundled with this super-expensive desktop Workstation".

The hardware dongle...

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 7:54:22
#1347 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1805
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

Apple switch to unix on ppc before switch to x86.


Well, no - NeXTstep was already x86, as was Rhapsody - the work-in-progress name of the OS, all the way up to the release of the OS under name of OSX (OS 10), which happened when Apple were done porting everything to (legacy) PowerPC. After that, OSX was on PowerPC for just a short period (6 years?) before Apple went back to x86 again (no more need for legacy Os9 compatibility “layer” (BlueBox))

You can bet your butt that Apple made sure that OSX kept working on x86 as well through those years.

Moving to ARM is a lot less hassle…
* “same endian” simplifies emulation layer
* Apple has been using ARM since the 80s, they know it well
* Darwin on ARM has been around for at least 13 years, commercially

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

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cdimauro 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 8:27:34
#1348 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2276
From: Germany

@kolla Quote:

kolla wrote:

Well, no - NeXTstep was already x86, as was Rhapsody - the work-in-progress name of the OS, all the way up to the release of the OS under name of OSX (OS 10), which happened when Apple were done porting everything to (legacy) PowerPC. After that, OSX was on PowerPC for just a short period (6 years?) before Apple went back to x86 again (no more need for legacy Os9 compatibility “layer” (BlueBox))

You can bet your butt that Apple made sure that OSX kept working on x86 as well through those years.

You don't need to bet: it was the reality.
I've seen both sides of the Apple story because I sold the G5 to Steve (Jobs) the first time he wanted to move to Intel.
From an interview of former Freescale CEO.

More details about this story on an article (in Italian, sorry) that I've written years ago:
Apple e i processori: non č amore (eterno)

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 10:57:38
#1349 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5905
From: UK

@cdimauro

Nice article from the ex-Freescale CEO. Interesting they deduced that the desktop wasn’t “a market they want to serve”! Sounds like sour grapes to me!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Trixie 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 11:49:09
#1350 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2012
From: Czech Republic

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Of course AmigaOS 4 was meant to provide an alternative to other ("modern") OSes, that's the sole reason the project was started 20 years ago.

AmigaOS already couldn't compete with mainstream systems in the first half of the 1990s. When the OS4 project started, the goal was simply to make a transition to the PPC, in order to exploit the remaining commercial potential and interest of the existing user base. Amiga Inc. was very clear about OS4 being a stop-gap before OS5 (AmigaDE, Amiga Anywhere: whatever the current idea was) - you seem to have forgotten that. Only after the latter failed, hopes were pinned on OS4 because it was all that was left of the grand plans. Whether these hopes were realistic is another thing.

So I stand by my claim: AmigaOS4 was not mean to rub shoulders with the mainstream OSes. Actually, how could it when at the time that Hyperion began the PPC transition, AmigaOS was already 10+ years behind and losing?

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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cgutjahr 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 14:23:46
#1351 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 943
From: Unknown

@Trixie

I wasn't stating an opinion, I was stating a fact. I remember Alan Redhouse advertising the upcoming A1/OS4 combo on some of his fareast business meetings, an unreleased port to an IBM handheld, licensing SciTech's SNAP driver technology etc. etc.

And what is "exploit remaining commercial potential" supposed to mean anyway?

But kudos for pulling a "It must be true, because Amiga Inc. said it". In 2021, no less. That takes some balls

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AP 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 17:29:45
#1352 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 593
From: Vienna/Austria

@cgutjahr: >I wasn't stating an opinion, I was stating a fact.

Not really: You are mixing "facts" with your very personal opinion since 20 years.

But anyway: Of course every new owner/developer of AmigaOS tried to think positiv and wanted to create some attention, but as a fact of matter it was too little and much too late 20 years ago. In fact there where already years after years with zero development after Commodore and in 2001 AmigaOS has lost his influence and was far behind other Oses. It was already kind of a hobby and a very obscure OS when you bought your SAMflex 20 years ago. You may see it the other way, but don't´blame reality for it

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

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cgutjahr 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 18:00:46
#1353 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 943
From: Unknown

@AP

Quote:

You may see it the other way

It's not about what you or me or Trixie think - that's completely irrelevant. Trixies statement to which I replied was (he thinks) "OS4 never competed with..." - and that's simply not true.

Of course all of that is ancient history (but not actually20 years, maybe you should fact check your claims occasionally). But claiming there never was an attempt to create a usable/useful desktop OS, is just rewriting history. It's yet another version of "Timberwolf works fine here".

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kamelito 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 18:06:46
#1354 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 764
From: Unknown

In French but you can translate Alan Redhouse interview.
http://obligement.free.fr/articles/itwredhouse.php

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AP 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 18:53:07
#1355 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 593
From: Vienna/Austria

@cgutjahr: >Trixies statement to which I replied was (he thinks) "OS4 never competed >with..." - and that's simply not true.

Ok, then this was a misunderstanding from my side. Of course, there where times when AmigaOS4 (or better the developers behind the project) tried to establish an alternative to other OSes and in some sort trie to compete with other OSes. I hoped the best in 2001 but it was clear - even with a miracle - that the IT-world already has moved along too fast for us.

And nevertheless: It was too little and too late by 2001. Amino/Amiga INc. gave the impression that they had the manpower, money and will/vision to turn around the situation for good, but we all know that wasn't true.

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Trixie 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 16-May-2021 20:17:42
#1356 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2012
From: Czech Republic

@cgutjahr

Quote:
claiming there never was an attempt to create a usable/useful desktop OS, is just rewriting history.

I never said such a thing, but whatever.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 12:57:42
#1357 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@thread

Quote:
MOTION to Vacate and Reset Pretrial Calendar, and to Allow the Parties Time to Depose a New Witness , filed by Counter Claimants Amiga, Inc, Itec, LLC, Defendants Amiga, Inc, Amino Development Corporation, Cloanto Corporation, Itec, LLC, Consol Plaintiffs Amiga, Inc, Amino Development Corporation, Cloanto Corporation, Itec, LLC. Noting Date 5/28/2021, (Atkins, Michael)


Source May 20, 2021

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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OlafS25 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 15:17:14
#1358 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

of course that is possible on apple with support of software companies. On amiga most software is no longer supported so noone would new compile it. Only solution sandboxes like using integrated UAE. Similar could be done with PPC. But it would certainly require a lot of work to do it in a way user would like it.

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OlafS25 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 15:20:29
#1359 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

it depends what you use

I use MUI 3.8 in my Aros

And many programs like Simplemail work in Zune but not all

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-May-2021 at 03:23 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 15:30:08
#1360 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11858
From: Norway

@cgutjahr

I believe there is difference between being a “usable/useful desktop” and being a secure and feature rich OS, with lots of support from the industry, with latest of everything.

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