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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 20:57:56
#1481 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12761
From: Norway

@number6

I think he should at least know better.
like it or not he is part of it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 09:10 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 08:58 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 22:01:40
#1482 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7275
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I think he should at least know better.
like it or not he is part of it.


We’re all part of it that’s the trouble! We inflate the value of all this dead IP stuff. It stops a mini A500 ‘console’ being released to the masses that would buy one and probably introduce our machine to a new generation! Instead we get false dawns like the Tabor, Amiga Forever and AmigaOS 3.2 that just keep the whole thing creaking on just enough with the dwindling old faithful who actually fuel the IP battles! If we withheld our money until they’d sorted this out then they’d have to settle!

Last edited by BigD on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:03 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 22:11:06
#1483 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2809
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

The “mini console” A500 was released to the masses the very same year that Hyperion and Amiga made the settlement, in 2009. You could buy them for quite a few years, preinstalled with OS license from Cloanto and a whdload license as well. The games have their own legal statuses and licenses, so few were included, but everything was prepared for easy installation using whdload installers.

So, how come you and everyone didn’t get one?

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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 22:20:23
#1484 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

If we withheld our money until they’d sorted this out then they’d have to settle!


By that logic you're exempt from any responsibility for this mess.

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:22 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 22:26:47
#1485 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7275
From: UK

@kolla

If such a machine DID exist then we don’t have the marketing or manufacturing contacts to get it made or to build up the demand. The way the C64 was relaunched was amazing but we’re too busy infighting too touch the mainstream with such a unit even though it could be done! Most Americans didn’t get to try one so a marketing campaign is required to educate them on what they missed! It’s a tough sell if the nostalgia is not there I guess. I understand as I still fail to see what all the fuss was about the NES even now. But then I find even Super Mario Bros. 3 quite boring compared to the MegaDrive Sonic games to be honest.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 22:31:39
#1486 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7275
From: UK

@jorit2

Thanks! Though I support AmigaKit with Classic purchases and am pumped for the Raptor Accelerator due from the Apollo Team. I did want to compliment it with AmigaOS 3.2 but this IP mess needs to collapse and to get rebuilt before we’re too old to teach the new generation and encourage them to buy fun new easily accessible and available to buy Amiga products!

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noXLar 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 13:36:14
#1487 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 734
From: Norway

@BigD

what i read (between the lines) is fanboy war. 68k support/future vs ppc support support future

68k gang are motivated to crush any ongoings the 0s4 may have until they are dead.

its all about envy.

while, i support all camps. and use them all for fun. but this 68k war, (we where here first) mongoloid is just stupid, and childish

Last edited by noXLar on 06-Jun-2021 at 01:44 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 14:18:43
#1488 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7275
From: UK

@noXLar

No I’m sure OS4 is good but there is no hardware available and I still sense A1222 Plus is a long way off. Hyperion are not developing OS4 anymore hence the ridiculously low asking price with no thought to reinvest into future development. The ONLY progress right now is for 68k and MorphOS in terms of browser tech. It isn’t a war if AmigaOS is on sabatical!

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 14:19:52
#1489 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11539
From: In the village

@noXLar

Given that 3.x has not made it perfectly clear what they intend to share with 4.x publically and yet 3.x has openly stated they are back porting from 4.x.....

We don't need a new niche within a niche within a niche. I suggest these 2 new "camps" engage in some very specific exchange of dialog and soon.

#6

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noXLar 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 14:48:16
#1490 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 734
From: Norway

@BigD

not right now maybe, but has been since ppc route was taken.

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bison 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 15:58:19
#1491 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@noXLar

The ironic thing is, both ISAs are nearly dead.

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Trixie 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 17:00:09
#1492 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2086
From: Czech Republic

@bison

Quote:
The ironic thing is, both ISAs are nearly dead.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie."

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 0:20:41
#1493 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1948
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

Given that 3.x has not made it perfectly clear what they intend to share with 4.x publically and yet 3.x has openly stated they are back porting from 4.x.....


mercurioblu: Is there any convergence plan in place between the 68k and the ppc AmigaOS versions? Do you have interaction and have access to AmigaOS 4.x source code?

Ignacio Gully: There are no plans of convergence. I mean there's a pool of code which we share because we have a common ground of course but we have different paths. The OS fork is one and the 68k is one so please understand that we are none of these branches is going to try to follow the other but just pursue their own goals and ways of doing things. The difference in architecture you can not compare a machine with a PPC processor running a 100 or thousands of MHz with a 68k processor running at for example 7 MHz and the same goes with the memory, with the IO throughput of the machines so the OS has to be adapted to better suit that architecture and even more than that what else do you have an interaction set. Yes, we do have. In fact there are 2 developers that come and go and actually work on both operating systems simultaneously. One is Olaf and the other is Massimo and they usually interchange ideas that we have and the OS 4 team has. They of course are allowed to pick up from our code we are allowed to pick up from theirs. Of course we as a courtesy ask politely but we are always granted that favor from them and of course they can do exactly the same. So please understand that our goals may be similar there is a pool of code that is quite similar but we are not going exactly to the same destination.

AmigaOS 3.2 Presentation and Installation with development team member (Gulliver answer @ 38:22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIf3EyHGwRU

#6 Quote:

We don't need a new niche within a niche within a niche. I suggest these 2 new "camps" engage in some very specific exchange of dialog and soon.


The camps overlap and there is communication. The AmigaOS 3 and AmigaOS 4 APIs are becoming more similar but will never be the same. There are some parts of AmigaOS 4 which are only licensed for the PPC like P96 and RoadShow so can't currently be backported. Of course Hyperion could lose their AmigaOS license altogether turning both OSs into a legal mess perhaps like H&P AmigaOS 3.9.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 6:50:58
#1494 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
#6 Quote:

Given that 3.x has not made it perfectly clear what they intend to share with 4.x publically and yet 3.x has openly stated they are back porting from 4.x.....


mercurioblu: Is there any convergence plan in place between the 68k and the ppc AmigaOS versions? Do you have interaction and have access to AmigaOS 4.x source code?

Ignacio Gully: There are no plans of convergence. I mean there's a pool of code which we share because we have a common ground of course but we have different paths. The OS fork is one and the 68k is one so please understand that we are none of these branches is going to try to follow the other but just pursue their own goals and ways of doing things. The difference in architecture you can not compare a machine with a PPC processor running a 100 or thousands of MHz with a 68k processor running at for example 7 MHz and the same goes with the memory, with the IO throughput of the machines so the OS has to be adapted to better suit that architecture and even more than that what else do you have an interaction set. Yes, we do have. In fact there are 2 developers that come and go and actually work on both operating systems simultaneously. One is Olaf and the other is Massimo and they usually interchange ideas that we have and the OS 4 team has. They of course are allowed to pick up from our code we are allowed to pick up from theirs. Of course we as a courtesy ask politely but we are always granted that favor from them and of course they can do exactly the same. So please understand that our goals may be similar there is a pool of code that is quite similar but we are not going exactly to the same destination.

AmigaOS 3.2 Presentation and Installation with development team member (Gulliver answer @ 38:22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIf3EyHGwRU


…and both their own respective copyrights in turn relies on the original Commodore copyrights.

Quote:
#6 Quote:

We don't need a new niche within a niche within a niche. I suggest these 2 new "camps" engage in some very specific exchange of dialog and soon.


The camps overlap and there is communication. The AmigaOS 3 and AmigaOS 4 APIs are becoming more similar but will never be the same. There are some parts of AmigaOS 4 which are only licensed for the PPC like P96 and RoadShow so can't currently be backported. Of course Hyperion could lose their AmigaOS license altogether turning both OSs into a legal mess perhaps like H&P AmigaOS 3.9.


A removal of Hyperion from the equation would mean a final removal of any “legal mess”. Cloanto did that once before to solve the H&P 3.9 mess by circumvent them and releasing “Workbench 3.X”…

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 19:32:11
#1495 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1948
From: Kansas

TRIPOS Quote:

…and both their own respective copyrights in turn relies on the original Commodore copyrights.


Sure, but that is not a problem for Hyperion while they have a practically unlimited perpetual worldwide license for AmigaOS 3.1.

TRIPOS Quote:

A removal of Hyperion from the equation would mean a final removal of any “legal mess”. Cloanto did that once before to solve the H&P 3.9 mess by circumvent them and releasing “Workbench 3.X”…


I'm not so sure a removal of Hyperion will solve all the Amiga legal problems. Hyperion may own AmigaOS software components (copyrights) built on top of AmigaOS 3.1 like H&P did with AmigaOS 3.9 components. For example, the new Reaction was purchased by Hyperion and integrated in AmigaOS 3.2. It would be possible to go back to an earlier AmigaOS base as Hyperion and Cloanto did but it could be another disappointing 2 steps forward 1 step back situation. Cloanto did not own all the Amiga Inc. IP at the time of their minor AmigaOS update so they may be able to do a more extensive AmigaOS update now. There are also potential Amiga legal disputes over AmigaStore, AmigaKit, etc. The acquiesce of the Amiga parties allowed IP squatters which need to be challenged to control the Amiga brand again.

Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2021 at 07:34 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 23:15:07
#1496 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2809
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:

For example, the new Reaction was purchased by Hyperion and integrated in AmigaOS 3.2.


No it isn’t, even less integrated than it was in 3.9 as apparently no vital 3.2 component depend on ReAction classes. Just a few included third party tools.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 12:27:42
#1497 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11539
From: In the village

@thread

Notice of appearance filed for 2 more attorneys

and

MOTION to Quash NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF EVERT CARTON AND MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER

Source

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 11:54:04
#1498 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11539
From: In the village

@thread

NOTICE to Withdraw Pending Motion re123 MOTION to Quash NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF EVERT CARTON AND MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER

and

NOTICE OF WITHDRAWAL OF COUNSEL: Attorney Eric Harrison

Source

#6

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terminills 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 17:03:27
#1499 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@number6


Quote:


Mr. Hermans’ word document is not properly before the Court as an opposition to Plaintiff’s motion.



Maybe a FW document would have been better? :)

Last edited by terminills on 18-Jun-2021 at 05:04 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 17:09:45
#1500 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@number6

Is that Legal presentation number 4 or 5 for Hyperion so far?

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