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PosterThread
TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 7:50:58
#1521 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1121
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
#6 Quote:

Given that 3.x has not made it perfectly clear what they intend to share with 4.x publically and yet 3.x has openly stated they are back porting from 4.x.....


mercurioblu: Is there any convergence plan in place between the 68k and the ppc AmigaOS versions? Do you have interaction and have access to AmigaOS 4.x source code?

Ignacio Gully: There are no plans of convergence. I mean there's a pool of code which we share because we have a common ground of course but we have different paths. The OS fork is one and the 68k is one so please understand that we are none of these branches is going to try to follow the other but just pursue their own goals and ways of doing things. The difference in architecture you can not compare a machine with a PPC processor running a 100 or thousands of MHz with a 68k processor running at for example 7 MHz and the same goes with the memory, with the IO throughput of the machines so the OS has to be adapted to better suit that architecture and even more than that what else do you have an interaction set. Yes, we do have. In fact there are 2 developers that come and go and actually work on both operating systems simultaneously. One is Olaf and the other is Massimo and they usually interchange ideas that we have and the OS 4 team has. They of course are allowed to pick up from our code we are allowed to pick up from theirs. Of course we as a courtesy ask politely but we are always granted that favor from them and of course they can do exactly the same. So please understand that our goals may be similar there is a pool of code that is quite similar but we are not going exactly to the same destination.

AmigaOS 3.2 Presentation and Installation with development team member (Gulliver answer @ 38:22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIf3EyHGwRU


…and both their own respective copyrights in turn relies on the original Commodore copyrights.

Quote:
#6 Quote:

We don't need a new niche within a niche within a niche. I suggest these 2 new "camps" engage in some very specific exchange of dialog and soon.


The camps overlap and there is communication. The AmigaOS 3 and AmigaOS 4 APIs are becoming more similar but will never be the same. There are some parts of AmigaOS 4 which are only licensed for the PPC like P96 and RoadShow so can't currently be backported. Of course Hyperion could lose their AmigaOS license altogether turning both OSs into a legal mess perhaps like H&P AmigaOS 3.9.


A removal of Hyperion from the equation would mean a final removal of any “legal mess”. Cloanto did that once before to solve the H&P 3.9 mess by circumvent them and releasing “Workbench 3.X”…

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 20:32:11
#1522 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1129
From: Kansas

TRIPOS Quote:

…and both their own respective copyrights in turn relies on the original Commodore copyrights.


Sure, but that is not a problem for Hyperion while they have a practically unlimited perpetual worldwide license for AmigaOS 3.1.

TRIPOS Quote:

A removal of Hyperion from the equation would mean a final removal of any “legal mess”. Cloanto did that once before to solve the H&P 3.9 mess by circumvent them and releasing “Workbench 3.X”…


I'm not so sure a removal of Hyperion will solve all the Amiga legal problems. Hyperion may own AmigaOS software components (copyrights) built on top of AmigaOS 3.1 like H&P did with AmigaOS 3.9 components. For example, the new Reaction was purchased by Hyperion and integrated in AmigaOS 3.2. It would be possible to go back to an earlier AmigaOS base as Hyperion and Cloanto did but it could be another disappointing 2 steps forward 1 step back situation. Cloanto did not own all the Amiga Inc. IP at the time of their minor AmigaOS update so they may be able to do a more extensive AmigaOS update now. There are also potential Amiga legal disputes over AmigaStore, AmigaKit, etc. The acquiesce of the Amiga parties allowed IP squatters which need to be challenged to control the Amiga brand again.

Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2021 at 08:34 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 9-Jun-2021 0:15:07
#1523 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1788
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:

For example, the new Reaction was purchased by Hyperion and integrated in AmigaOS 3.2.


No it isn’t, even less integrated than it was in 3.9 as apparently no vital 3.2 component depend on ReAction classes. Just a few included third party tools.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 14-Jun-2021 13:27:42
#1524 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@thread

Notice of appearance filed for 2 more attorneys

and

MOTION to Quash NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF EVERT CARTON AND MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER

Source

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 12:54:04
#1525 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@thread

NOTICE to Withdraw Pending Motion re123 MOTION to Quash NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF EVERT CARTON AND MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER

and

NOTICE OF WITHDRAWAL OF COUNSEL: Attorney Eric Harrison

Source

#6

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terminills 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 18:03:27
#1526 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1399
From: Unknown

@number6


Quote:


Mr. Hermans’ word document is not properly before the Court as an opposition to Plaintiff’s motion.



Maybe a FW document would have been better? :)

Last edited by terminills on 18-Jun-2021 at 06:04 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 18:09:45
#1527 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 907
From: Unknown

@number6

Is that Legal presentation number 4 or 5 for Hyperion so far?

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 18:24:03
#1528 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@Rose

The lawyer count depends on whether you count lawfirms or lawyers.

There were 3 attorneys at Lee & Hayes. They filed Mar 16, 2020 Notice of withdrawal of counsel.

Replaced same day by Eric Harrison, who filed Jun 16, 2021 Notice of withdrawal of counsel.

Then just prior to that we have the 2 new attorneys Jun 13, 2021 filing for Notice of appearance.

Since there was legal activity in both Belgium and Delaware, it's likely that would be 2 others.

So that's 8...and I may have undercounted because of the 2 other related lawsuits and any other unrecorded events.

Checked original case in New York State, where this began, so add another 1 lawfirm or 3 attorneys to the total.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 18-Jun-2021 at 06:30 PM.

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amigadave 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Jun-2021 0:41:34
#1529 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1721
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@number6

I wonder how many of those law firms retracted their representation of Hyperion due to lack of payment?

How ironic will it be for Ben to lose this case, if Cloanto/Amiga Inc. uses the exact same tactics he used to force McBill to sign away the farm in 2009? At some point it should become clear that Hyperion can't recoup all these legal costs, from our tiny niche community, no matter how many AmigaOS developers he gets to work for free for him.

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Jose 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Jun-2021 4:56:38
#1530 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 955
From: Unknown

@amigadave
" At some point it should become clear that Hyperion can't recoup all these legal costs, from our tiny niche community, no matter how many AmigaOS developers he gets to work for free for him"

Yeah, independently of who wins or has reason, what a pathetic judicial system most of the western world has...

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Jun-2021 6:10:38
#1531 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1129
From: Kansas

amigadave Quote:

I wonder how many of those law firms retracted their representation of Hyperion due to lack of payment?


Possible scenario...

Ben Hermans contacts the law firm and asks them to take the case involving Hyperion. The law firm finds out he is an IP lawyer which are some of the richest lawyers and initially give him a high priority from senior partners. Then they find out the specifics of the case, the poor financial record of Hyperion and the lack of ethics of Hyperion which becomes clear is controlled by Ben. They realize that Hyperion could declare bankruptcy or stop paying and they could be out a month or more of bills. Bill payments may already be slow from Hyperion. What looked like a lucrative business IP and contract case now doesn't look so good. It is not so easy to drop a client especially using information discovered from the case as that would be a conflict of interest. Maybe it is time to put junior partners on the case and spread out the work so the loss of payment wouldn't be as painful.

amigadave Quote:

How ironic will it be for Ben to lose this case, if Cloanto/Amiga Inc. uses the exact same tactics he used to force McBill to sign away the farm in 2009? At some point it should become clear that Hyperion can't recoup all these legal costs, from our tiny niche community, no matter how many AmigaOS developers he gets to work for free for him.


Cloanto is "nuking from orbit" Hyperion the same way Hyperion was "nuking from orbit" Amiga Inc.? Did Ben Hermans forget the golden rule? Karma?

Last edited by matthey on 19-Jun-2021 at 06:13 AM.

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Rose 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Jun-2021 11:08:42
#1532 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 907
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:
I wonder how many of those law firms retracted their representation of Hyperion due to lack of payment?


My thoughts exactly. Tho wouldn't be surprised if it would be case of one of following.

"Withdrawal is also justified if the client persists in a course of action that the lawyer reasonably believes is criminal or fraudulent, for a lawyer is not required to be associated with such conduct even if the lawyer does not further it. Withdrawal is also permitted if the lawyer's services were misused in the past even if that would materially prejudice the client. The lawyer may also withdraw where the client insists on taking action that the lawyer considers repugnant or with which the lawyer has a fundamental disagreement."

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-Jun-2021 20:28:00
#1533 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@thread

2 New filings from the court.

Quote:
Miscellaneous Relief

and

Quote:
Declaration


126 and 127

More info when/if available.

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 12:06:17
#1534 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@thread

Some detail concerning 126 and 127 above, plus another new filing.

126 - MOTION Bar Withdrawal and Substitution of Counsel and to Compel Attorney to Attend Deposition

127 - Declaration concerning same with many exhibits related to the dissolution of Ben's BV

128 - Response from the new attorneys to the above

Source

#6

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TheodoreTwinky 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 15:23:11
#1535 ]
Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Posts: 53
From: Whitehaven, Cumbria UK

@number6

Are Hyperion actually arguing with their own lawyers now? If so that doesn't sound good. The lawyers certainly wont represent Hyperion to the best of their abilities. Hyperion really are falling apart if so. Shame this didn't happen years ago. Maybe under a different stewardship AmigaOS could have been so much further along.

Last edited by TheodoreTwinky on 22-Jun-2021 at 03:23 PM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 16:12:55
#1536 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@TheodoreTwinky

Sorry no filings (the actual docs) have been made available, as has been done prior.

But it is clear even from the Pacer summary that the lawyer being compelled to attend deposition is Eric Harrison, the lawyer that Ben could not reach, according to prior docs.

It seems like he is the recognized attorney of record, despite his filing to remove himself, and the 2 new attorneys are therefore not recognized as attorney of record.

We'll see...

#6

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Lou 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 18:02:45
#1537 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4107
From: Rhode Island

@number6

I just hope this is the trial to end all trials...

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 18:20:02
#1538 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5893
From: UK

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:
@number6

I just hope this is the trial to end all trials...


I suggest you just get AmigaOS3.2 while you can if it's of interest to you for there is no knowing how this will all end up or if anyone will be left standing! It might all be open sourced by default if Cloanto win because there won't be any money left and the Amiga parties will all be skint!

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 18:57:40
#1539 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@BigD

Quote:
It might all be open sourced by default if Cloanto win because there won't be any money left and the Amiga parties will all be skint!

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 22-Jun-2021 21:38:55
#1540 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11234
From: In the village

@thread

Obviously a busy day...

2 more filings.

Undoubtedly the Amiga Parties response and declaration to Hyperion's response to motion.

Details if/when made available as usual.

#6

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