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PosterThread
BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-Jun-2021 21:55:59
#1601 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5893
From: UK

@simplex

Quote:
The situation in most Western countries is that we are increasingly extending what should be a safety net to subsidize the middle class. The result is that the middle class takes less and less responsibility for itself, when it really could take responsibility for itself, and the apparent need for a safety net grows.


The working classes (in the UK anyway) used to be proud hard working people. In many ways the overly generous benefits system has robbed whole swathes of the population of the God given dignity of work! People's self worth gets effected when they don't have to provide for their families and it all becomes a game of getting what you're entitled to!! Before you know it we are a semi-communist state or a very unequal socialist/capitalist mish-mash of a country that basically keeps the populace dependant with hand outs rather than encouraging enterprise and ingenuity! We are half way there and the South Korean/Asian work ethic puts us to shame. More worryingly the German system generously supports women so that they can take time off work to have children (and care for them during the first year) and yet their productivity as a country is STILL higher than ours!

Maybe their culture's priorities of spending time with family and nurturing them while at home whilst also promoting hard work while you're at work is what makes the difference? The Protestant work ethic is sorely missed in the UK and Western World in general and without it capitalism has lost its heart and socialism has lost it's sense of human striving and betterment. Self, self, self is what I hear and right now, "I've had a hard year I deserve x, y and z!"

Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2021 at 10:03 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2021 at 10:00 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2021 at 09:58 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-Jun-2021 23:25:39
#1602 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1789
From: Trondheim, Norway

The important thing is to keep the pendulum swinging back and forth between capitalism and socialism without letting it swing too much to the authoritarian extremes.

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Jose 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-Jun-2021 23:38:46
#1603 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 955
From: Unknown

@kolla
"The important thing is to keep the pendulum swinging back and forth between capitalism and socialism without letting it swing too much to the authoritarian extremes."

Sure, just make sure we end with the good aspects of both cause right now it seems we're having the worse: Super regulation that keeps the big corporations monopolies untouched and taxes that make it super hard for any to justify the hard work ethics some mentioned.

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LarsB 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 12:17:59
#1604 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

@simplex Hi, I am just keeping short, no to pollute this thread. ;)

"The situation in most Western countries is that we are increasingly extending what should be a safety net to subsidize the middle class."

Due health reasons I was umemployed for a long time. And here in Germany you getiing preassure to find a new job. Its not the reported paradies for decades now. You have to absolve so called "meassurements". So I have quite some experience with people who are unemployed. I did 15 measurements. Our capitalist societys are creating loosers. The trash of our society that nobody wants to see or hear about. People who are ill, too old, or simply not being able to fit in, maybe with bad education. Its a hard life and far away from being a substituted middle class. Thats what "they" are telling you. Just to feel comfy. To close your eyes. Why does a middle class citizen needs to collect deposit bottles? And I am also talking about the victims in other countries. Here the rich dont to be surrounded by their victims. That causes criminality. they dont want that. And they want our working power and loyality. So they are keeping us numb.

Should we live in a society with two class medicine? With two class education? Well,,.. some say "it is like it is or do you want to be a communist? " I dont want both. And its a infamous way to argument.

And money is power and power corrupts. You want to get more of it if you have crossed a certain level. The elite is working in roped teams. And here is a distinction. Capitalism is a ecconomic system. Not nessecarily a political system. The context that does exist "obviously" to some is not real. It turns more and more into a contradiction. And so, I think it is wrong to say our social benefits generate a subsidized middle class. Its almost cynical to say so.

Last edited by LarsB on 26-Jun-2021 at 03:05 PM.
Last edited by LarsB on 26-Jun-2021 at 03:04 PM.
Last edited by LarsB on 26-Jun-2021 at 01:38 PM.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 15:21:17
#1605 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@LarsB

Your situation actually illustrates my argument! I have no trouble saying that a safety net ought to be there precisely for people like your situation. But reflect on this:

10-15 years ago, our government had a fight over whether we should extend a certain program to households whose income was up to 400% of poverty level. That is not a typo. I wondered what 400% of poverty level was, and to my shock I realized that my household would have qualified for benefits!

Let's put this in perspective. I own my house, I own my car, at the time I was sending one of my children to a private school, I was sending my wife & children to visit her family most summers (my wife is an immigrant, so it was quite expensive), some years I was going as well, and most years we also spent a week at the beach. My household does not need government support!

This was no accident of statistics where I was lucky. Advocates of expanding the program rolled out a television ad featuring a family that supposedly needed the benefit. Well, an enterprising journalist dug into it and found that this family owned two homes, one of them beachfront property in a very expensive area. Naturally the program's advocates were unashamed in their outrage that someone had invaded the family's privacy.

When policies and programs are instituted to ensure that people like that family and mine qualify for government support, who suffers? People who actually do deserve the support: that is, people like you.

That's what I mean when I say that government ought to have a real safety net, not a policy of subsidizing a middle class lifestyle. I agree that government should do something, but it can't do everything, statistics often lie, and you can never, ever underestimate politicians' appetite for buying votes. The potential for corruption and waste is immense.

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LarsB 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 16:05:49
#1606 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

@simplex Sure I am lucky to be protected by that net. But it simply does not fit the reality that people who are unemployed can send their childreen to a private school. Thats not true. And gouverment did just discuss about that. It finally didnt happen. I think this discussion hasnt been more than fogging the truth. Maybe this sound strange but I am sure that there is more to come. Thats why the gouverments enforce mass monitoring. They know that they will need more control to hold the outreaged people back.

And unemployed and middle class? When I was at meassurements my "colleauges" often did have just some cents in the pocket. When we did excusrsions to our neighbour city Brunswick, we all did just put maybe 2€ in our pockets for this special reason. I still have to eat bread when my colleagues at work eat duck canton. Middle class? Nope.

There are people in GB who dont get medical necessary treatments because they are too old and not useful in their society anymore. I had a buddy who had suffered two strokes and still had to go to measurements and he was 56. Now in germany we dicuss pension-start over 70 years of age. Capitalism is a heartless system. Missused be a small elite to manifest their power. Its not a negative side-effect. That is the wanted outcome out of this.

Last edited by LarsB on 26-Jun-2021 at 04:07 PM.
Last edited by LarsB on 26-Jun-2021 at 04:07 PM.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 19:45:49
#1607 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@LarsB

Quote:
But it simply does not fit the reality that people who are unemployed can send their childreen to a private school. Thats not true. And gouverment did just discuss about that. It finally didnt happen.

That's either obtuse or willfully missing the point. Enjoy your moral preening.

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LarsB 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 20:15:49
#1608 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2019
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

@simplex Allright. Got the point. ;) Good night to you, too. Lars

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QuikSanz 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 22:48:24
#1609 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1166
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@LarsB,

The taxes you pay here for school should be portable. If your Kids school is failing you should be able to your Kid AND taxes with you to another school.....

Chris

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spud101 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-Jun-2021 17:02:09
#1610 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2016
Posts: 71
From: Unknown

Hyperion down, just a coincidence, or bigger reason behind this?

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-Jun-2021 21:40:12
#1611 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5893
From: UK

@spud101



Nuke all the Amiga parties from orbit... it's the only way to be sure!!

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-Jun-2021 23:32:17
#1612 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1789
From: Trondheim, Norway

@spud101
They probably "forgot" to pay their VPS (hetzner.com) the monthly 5 euros.

Last edited by kolla on 29-Jun-2021 at 11:33 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 3-Jul-2021 19:19:28
#1613 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1121
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote:
@walkero

Quote:
Guys, don't be naive. What AmigaKit is scared of, IMO, it is not the AA magazine. And this is clear by their move, is that behind AA is Simulant Systems Ltd (https://www.simulant.uk/shop/home). AmigaKit tries to prevent one more store to rise, because they assume that Amiga Addict trademark might be used to sell/promote hardware and software in the future. It is the same thing they did with Amiga/RetroPassion.

I might be wrong but that's how I see it.

Bingo. They've aggressively gone after other Amiga retailers in the past, not just the RetroPassion guys in the UK. Heaven help us if Enhancer is a Trojan horse for taking over AmigaOS by stealth. These types of business practices are simply inexcusable, especially in such a small community.

I've heard frequently that 'our only business is Amiga' from AmigaKit. That other retailers are only doing their thing on a part-time basis or that they specialize in other platforms, too. Like that gives an excuse for monopolist-level bullying. For better or worse, we live in a capitalist world, and that means (or should mean) open competition. If you can only compete by trying to squeeze out cash-poor competitors via legal trickery and such, find a new line of work.

Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, I'm *extremely* peeved over this. AmigaKit are threatening a bunch of hobbyists publishing what is, in essence, a magazine centered on nostalgic memory. And still their unmitigated arrogance prevents them from seeing how damaging it is even to their own brand. I mean, just look at how angry I am; I've been a huge fan of A-EON for more than a decade. How can I justify helping or funding through my custom a firm that is essentially the same entity pulling crap like this going forward?!

-- eliyahu


…and here is what it all boils down to:

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44226&forum=14

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 30-Jul-2021 14:52:21
#1614 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11235
From: In the village

@thread

regarding publishing of A500 trademark by Amigakit

notice of threatened opposition filed today

Checked since it is absolutely an associated event:

On July 14, 2021 the assignment of the trademark "TheA500" documented prior in this thread, was changed from Angela Andrews to RETRO GAMES LTD. the company that announced a teaser for the product long ago.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 30-Jul-2021 at 03:01 PM.

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tygre 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 3-Aug-2021 23:35:02
#1615 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2011
Posts: 247
From: Montreal, QC, Canada

Hi @thread!

I know this is off-topic but this relates to posts made earlier in this thread, around p.67: an interesting discussion about endianness.

Happy reading!
Tygre

PS. It would be nice if an admin could extract all the posts about endianness in their own thread

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Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

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Hypex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 9-Aug-2021 16:03:16
#1616 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10256
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
How do you explain how Apple could switch from 68k to PPC and then X86?


That's easy. The PPC MacOS is almost a clone of of 68K MacOS. From a user perspective. Both are big endian. Once ported to PPC they dumped MacOS and brought in MacOSX. OSX is portable and can run on big or little endian. On Intel they did exactly that. By then they had a portable OS. Now a switch to ARM, doing it again. Same endian as Intel. Just a new compile, targeting another CPU, and changing the name. They dropped the X and turned the OS into an improper noun by calling it macOS in the process. Mac isn't neat any more.

Amiga, if we consider the OS4 route, is still stuck at the level of MacOS9. MacOS9 on PPC was just like MacOS8 on 68K. AmigaOS4 is like MacOS9 on PPC.

OTOH, Windows has survived and been redesigned without a CPU switch. Just evolving along with the same CPU arch updated order the years. Apart from Apple, no one is replacing Intel, so it kinda looks Amiga and Mac look bad that they need to switch a CPU every ten years.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 9-Aug-2021 16:48:49
#1617 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11826
From: Norway

@Hypex

MacOS6.x.x - MacOS9:
From little i have dived into MacOS7.x.x/8.x.x, MacOS is a OO hell, lots of inheritances that inheritances on other inheritances etch, you have that, messed up hack of a memory system, and issue with message queues, and issue with cooperative multitasking and timing. It looks nice on the surface, but nothing beautiful below it. over complicated mess of a filesystem. MacOS was first written in Pascal and then converted to C, as a result it lots of legacy crap in it. strings has to be converted to pascal format and then from pascal format into c format.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Aug-2021 at 05:00 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Aug-2021 at 04:59 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Aug-2021 at 04:59 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Aug-2021 at 04:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Aug-2021 at 04:49 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 9-Aug-2021 21:26:56
#1618 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 252
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Yes. Apple switch to unix on ppc.
Everything below graphics and gui was cut off and replaced by unix.
This solve all problems with endianess, drivers, memory protection.
After transition to unix transition to x86 was easy task.
On Amiga x86 followers want things to do too fast.
They do not treat ppc as they should.
ppc was necessary step in transition to x86.
So it will end as it end.
We have something like Mac Os 9.

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eliyahu 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Aug-2021 12:56:56
#1619 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1863
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@thread

Looks like AmigaKit never ended up filing their formal opposition to Amiga Addict's trademark registration in the end.

http://www.amiga-addict.com/the-amiga-addict-trademark-is-now-official/

-- eliyahu

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Hypex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 12-Aug-2021 14:40:55
#1620 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10256
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

That's interesting. So OO actually made it into MacOS. Commodore attempted add OO late in the game. Well, I suppose they did, but it was a but messed up. Obj-C emulated in a C wrapper that didn't look clean.

I thought the cooperative multitasking was rather well done. I used it and couldn't even tell. Unlike the Windows 3.1 model.

The Pascal legacy sounds familiar like BCPL in AmigaOS and TripOS. Some would think was a tripe OS in the system.

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