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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
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PosterThread
ne_one 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 20-Aug-2017 19:19:15
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 879
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:

take the good of the vampire. is time start make amigaos 4 vampire optimized.
it will be a good income for hyperion.


Bingo.

Clearly there is an opportunity here that would be mutually beneficial.

God forbid there might be direct dialogue rather than proselytizing through forums.

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WolfpackN64 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 20-Aug-2017 20:26:35
#22 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Oct-2016
Posts: 299
From: Unknown

@tlosm

That would be porting, not optimizing. That's a lot of work.

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tlosm 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 20-Aug-2017 21:43:55
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@WolfpackN64

optimized i was thinking about aimmx and the other features of vampire.
Im pretty sure Thomas F. will make miracles . i m sure he know really well 68k coding and optimizing.

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ne_one 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 20-Aug-2017 21:55:30
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 879
From: Unknown

@WolfpackN64

Quote:

WolfpackN64 wrote:
That would be porting, not optimizing. That's a lot of work.


If it truly did exist in some form, it shouldn't require a port.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 20-Aug-2017 22:37:58
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
Im pretty sure Thomas F. will make miracles . i m sure he know really well 68k coding and optimizing.

considering that os4 seems much less optimized to date than even aros is, im not that sure about the miracles to come. and considering general attitude and pace of progress im even less convinced, that cooperation in this case would be worth hassle.

Last edited by wawa on 20-Aug-2017 at 10:39 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 20-Aug-2017 23:27:58
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11222
From: Norway

@wawa

I don't see point porting 100% over, 680x0 is too slow for glorified effects. But it be nice if core stuff gets a update graphic.library, dos.library, scsi.device. also be nice if AmigaInput existed on 680x0, as well as the same USB stack.

The idea is that if people make driver for UBS on classic they work OS4, as it or with recompile, so having common USB stack be nice.

Having a common graphic API, not old on classic, and new on AmigaOS4, be nice as well.

There are stuff in Exec as well that is different, that might nice if existed on 680x0 as well.

Like it is now supporting 680x0 and PowerPC, is effort with lots "if defined OS" and macros. That’s maybe way AmigaOS4 programs are not often ported back 680x0,

Something like AmigaOS3.14

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tlosm 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 21-Aug-2017 3:58:37
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@wawa

i dont know about optimizations or not ...but for hyperion make an os4 vampired will for sure make they will took some founds to use for future investments and jobs.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 21-Aug-2017 6:38:45
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
update graphic.library, dos.library, scsi.device


if the solutions you mention are compatible enough. afair for instance the convention how libraries are interfaced on os4 is different. it may not be that much of code, but its yet to prove working within current m68k environment circumstances, and what would that gain us.

Quote:
The idea is that if people make driver for UBS on classic they work OS4, as it or with recompile, so having common USB stack be nice.


genuine amiga has a better usb stack than os4 for years, poseidon vs syrion, not sure whats a gain here porting os4 version to m68k.

Quote:
Having a common graphic API, not old on classic, and new on AmigaOS4, be nice as well.


rendering it potentially incompatible with the existing software pool?

Quote:
There are stuff in Exec as well that is different, that might nice if existed on 680x0 as well.


afair execsg is exclusive to ppc, closed third party contribution, probably ppc asm. in this case would require additional funds for a complete implementation from the scratch on a different architecture and would introduce licensing dependance on another insecure third party contribution. also uncertain how compatible the sheduler would occur.

Quote:
Like it is now supporting 680x0 and PowerPC, is effort with lots "if defined OS" and macros.


you wont work around it coding one source for different architectures, i fear.

Quote:
That’s maybe way AmigaOS4 programs are not often ported back 680x0,


the problem is lack of coders and lack of straight forward source compatibility.

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simplex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 21-Aug-2017 13:05:22
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 786
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@tlosm

Quote:
but for hyperion make an os4 vampired will for sure make they will took some founds to use for future investments and jobs.


I don't think you understand the cost of developing software.

It's not enough merely to take in funds. Those funds have to outweigh the costs of developing it. (Companies must turn a profit and/or attract investment income, else they go out of business.) Labor is not typically cheap, let alone free, especially not the labor to develop software. Look, people complain on the board about the cost of updating Amiga OS4 when they've already paid for the OS and various updates already. I understand the users' point of view, but imagine the developers'.

Porting OS4 to Apollo will not be a simple matter of re-compiling and ici voilà! It's alive! Someone will have to be paid to root out all the little differences, debug the inevitable errors, etc.

Sure, AROS is free, but it's been decades in development, and it's still not reliable on many x86 computers. I've tried it 3 times, and only once did I manage to get it to work well enough that it seemed usable. Even then, there was some issue that annoyed me.

The Apollo team seem to have done what they did primarily out of enthusiasm. They took a long time to do it, and if you account properly for the cost of the labor they put into it, they aren't going to make anything resembling a profit, let alone not the sort any self-respecting company would need to fund future R&D.

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tlosm 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 21-Aug-2017 15:30:42
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@simplex

I can immagine the cost of developing software, this is my job. but some times dreams come true just hope :P

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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simplex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 21-Aug-2017 22:02:47
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 786
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@tlosm

Quote:
but some times dreams come true just hope :P


Fair enough: may your hopes be worthy of your courtesy!

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ne_one 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 3:21:13
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 879
From: Unknown

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote:

I don't think you understand the cost of developing software.


If Hyperion decoupled code from one dead processor only to tie it to another one that was clearly in free fall then they obviously don't understand how to run a viable software operation either.

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pavlor 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 8:06:06
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Well, community itself decided x86 is evil and PowerPC the future... Note PowerPC was still alive and under development back in 2001 when current OS4 project started.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 9:10:03
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Note PowerPC was still alive and under development back in 2001 when current OS4 project started.


if only the project went anywhere, as long as platform, it has been designed for, was still remaining alive.

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pavlor 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 9:31:04
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@wawa

Bill McEwen estimated 5000 AmigaOne computers sold would create solid base for sustainable commercial development. Incidentally, all AmigaOne (Eyetech) and Pegasos boards together reach this number. Both PowerPC OSs canibalised each other and destroyed last real chance for viable Amiga future.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 10:50:31
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

you really trust all this? ohje..

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pavlor 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 12:04:03
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
you really trust all this?


Trust? Back in 2000 there were still enough developers/creators/"power users" for one strong platform. Most of them joined Blue or Red side which turned Amiga into much weaker platform (or better several small platforms). Face reality, you can´t sustain any platform without such kind of users and platform of your choice got the least number of them. Vampire team may sell even 10000 boards, but 99 % of their users will be plain game players or "consumers". To revive 68k Amiga platform, Vampire needs to attract "power users" - hard to impossible task, when even much more powerful WinUAE fails there.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 13:30:18
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

i have never been talking about reviving the platform. vampire may well sell 10000 boards, thats true, i still wont consider it reviving the platform. however the income from that may enable them investing in software for the platform they establish and even in an asic 68k cpu.

well, thats all hypothetical. such an option doesnt exist for ppc, though, which customership is left to be hoping and dreaming forever.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Aug-2017 at 01:31 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 13:45:57
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
however the income from that may enable them investing in software for the platform they establish and even in an asic 68k cpu.


Nice dreams, nothing more...

Quote:
which customership is left to be hoping and dreaming forever.


OS4 has at least few developers and users willing to pay for software. Compare this to people looking for excuses to not pay even for the OS and download pirated copy instead.

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Signman 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 14:01:58
#40 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 93
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Amusing how many current users are having their come to Jesus conversions now about piracy.
Back in the day it was condoned and accepted to pirate or "copy" your software. Everyone had X copy then.

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