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      /  Hyperion is the end coming
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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 13:57:49
#221 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@broadblues

Quote:

and the src to all of these is available to customers via the download area of the hyperion wesbite.


Care to point to the right URL? I was looking the other day, but could not find them, at least not on first glance.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 14:09:10
#222 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2048
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

and AmigaOS don't use static linking, it has .libraries and .devices, this are loaded into memory, not liked at run time, and AmigaOS 4.1 support .so files, and this are also linked on run time, so there are many ways you use GPL code without breaking the license.


How would you describe how, for example, OWB implement SSL support?

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michalsc 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 14:22:00
#223 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 318
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
AmigaOS don't use static linking, it has .libraries and .devices, this are loaded into memory, not liked at run time


It's very simple: the libraries loaded/opened by software are linked with that software by means of a LVO table. It doesn't matter if it is a .library, .device or .so.

If you write a Programm A which uses a GPL-licensed B.library then you have to release your Programm A under GPL-license too. Or, simply, you just do not use the B.library at all.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 14:39:56
#224 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11399
From: In the village

@kolla

We keep running into this same issue.

Did anyone state for the record that you must be logged in and a registered customer of Hyperion Entertainment to see all the files in the download section?

#6

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AmeegaGuy 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 14:44:50
#225 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 95
From: Unknown

@Nonefornow

Quote:
How do you "steal some code" if the code is free and open source?


Much FOS code includes licensing. The terms of the license must be followed, this is the price of the free code. If the license says the code must include the license, distribution of the code without including the license is tantamount to stealing.

Also depending on the terms of the license there may be other ways to steal. For example some FOS code must be purchased with currency in order to use in an enterprise environment.

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eliyahu 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 15:11:30
#226 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1880
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@kolla

Quote:
Care to point to the right URL? I was looking the other day, but could not find them, at least not on first glance.

the source is only available to registered customers who own the product(s) in question. it's in a download section available to them on the hyperion web site.

-- eliyahu

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terminills 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 16:05:06
#227 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@number6


You do need to be logged in which is perfectly fine as the gpl only requires access to the source if you have the binary.

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Rose 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 16:09:18
#228 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:
You do need to be logged in which is perfectly fine as the gpl only requires access to the source if you have the binary.


Due license you can legally have binary without being their customer.

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terminills 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 16:31:10
#229 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@Rose


They have to provide to anyone who asks they don't have to make it easy. They can legally send 1000 Floppies via post mail if they want. Not saying it's the way it should be but it is legal.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 16:44:00
#230 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12103
From: Norway

@michalsc

So for example I have Windows 10, I download GIMP, and now suddenly Windows 10 should be under GPL because I'm using GIMP to draw a picture?

Gimp will use GPL and none GPL api's to work on a commercial OS.

Programs, libraries and drivers with different licenses do exist in Windows 10, in MacOSX, Linux, somehow they have managed, to avoid the Open Source Foundation Doctrine.

I think I found document that try's solve this issues,

http://www.jus.umu.se/digitalAssets/13/13669_jan_eriksson_leido.pdf

This is a really complicated topic, BSD, MIT, GPL, GPLv2 and GPLv3 can not be mixed from what I have read but there are ways that open software has to deal with this issues.

It not just the issue of commercial vs none commercial, there is the issues of distribution rights, code and conduct, and not just put code on Git-hub.

Software licenses is a big problem for everyone, not just commercial interest. But personally I think a lot more likely I get sued if had some money in the bank, then if giving away free games.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 05:18 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 05:07 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 05:06 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 04:56 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 04:51 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 16:58:54
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

lol. so in conclusion, someone just needs to buy a copy of the os, upon this demand to be delivered the whole source, because it has been linked against gpl code, and then just publish it, and voila: you have your open sourced os you always wanted.. yeah, popcorn!

Last edited by wawa on 20-Aug-2018 at 04:59 PM.

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michalsc 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 17:40:04
#232 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 318
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
So for example I have Windows 10, I download GIMP, and now suddenly Windows 10 should be under GPL because I'm using GIMP to draw a picture?

Gimp will use GPL and none GPL api's to work on a commercial OS.


I assume you did not understand what I wrote, did you?

What I wrote is a simple if-then relation. Let me repeat: *IF* you write a program which uses GPL library, *THEN* you have to use GPL-license for your program.

The IF-THEN relation works in one direction only, you cannot reverse it and put in my mouth. If I tell you "IF it rains, THEN sidewalk is wet" you cannot assume that I told you "IF sidewalk is wet THEN it rains".

I *NEVER* said that a commercial library or operating system *HAS* to be GPL-ed just because GPL-software is using it, did I?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 17:57:21
#233 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12103
From: Norway

@michalsc

so if I have installed Linux, all OS files are .so files and most of this are GPL, I can't install WINE (LGPL) and run Windows applications because, Windows applications are closed sourced using WINE (LGPL) that is open source and that again uses .so files that might be GPL?

Basilisk II (GPL) hooks into None GPL software, making the none GPL software (MacOS7) GPL code as well?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 06:07 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 06:03 PM.

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michalsc 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 18:18:02
#234 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 318
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
so if I have installed Linux, all OS files are .so files and most of this are GPL


This is your and only your assumption and it is not really valid.

Quote:
I can't install WINE (LGPL) and run Windows applications because


Of course you can. Wine is released under LGPL licence as such it can be linked with *any* other code under *any* licence.

Quote:
using WINE (LGPL) that is open source and that again uses .so files that might be GPL?


If you find any GPL-only WINE dependency then please be so kind and report licence violation to FSF. LGPL-ed WINE *cannot* be linked against GPL-ed library. The only way there would be to re-licece WINE to GPL, which is apparently not the case.

Quote:
Basilisk II (GPL) hooks into None GPL software, making the none GPL software (MacOS7) GPL code as well?


Have you ever read GPL licence and tried to understand it? From what you write I assume this is not the case. You *cannot* enforce GPL licence of any product by writing your own GPL product and linking it against the questioned one.

Trying to interpret the GPL licence this way implies you have completely misunderstood it. The discussion would be much easier if you read GPL as well as LGPL licence including corresponding FAQs and examples.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 18:32:25
#235 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12103
From: Norway

@michalsc

Quote:

Of course you can. Wine is released under LGPL licence as such it can be linked with *any* other code under *any* licence.


But if you do, you will be listed as some who is in validation..

See Google violating the LGPL.

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/06/07/2318210/google-chromes-inclusion-of-ffmpeg-vs-the-lgpl

and MediaCoder who wonted to use FFPMEG and run into some problems with LGPL code.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=790316

Samsung (L)GPL violation (FFmpeg/SmartTV)

http://legal.gpl-violations.narkive.com/pwcZeSBF/samsung-l-gpl-violation-ffmpeg-smarttv

When Samsung showed they where only linking, they clearly demanded more.

LGPL is not safe and should be avoided if possible.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Aug-2018 at 06:36 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 18:37:57
#236 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4429
From: Portsmouth England

@Rose

Quote:

Quote:

@terminills

Quote:
You do need to be logged in which is perfectly fine as the gpl only requires access to the source if you have the binary.


Due license you can legally have binary without being their customer.


But hyperion don't have to give a free binary.

If some third party who bought, or otherwise legally aquired, a binary shares that binary with you, (which they are allowed to do) then that third party is responsible for providing you with the src not hyperion.

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bobson 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 18:52:39
#237 ]
Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2018
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

Its been a long time since I was last here - old account had expired, so set up a new one :) Fed up with all the legal nonsense, I drifted away...

Been given an A1200, which I've recapped etc - and thought I'd pop back to see what's happening. Have things calmed down? or, going by the title of this thread, is everything just as litigious?

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terminills 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 19:01:05
#238 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Quote:
But hyperion don't have to give a free binary.

If some third party who bought, or otherwise legally aquired, a binary shares that binary with you, (which they are allowed to do) then that third party is responsible for providing you with the src not hyperion.



True but that doesn't stop someone from releasing the GPL'd source without permission from Hyperion if they buy a copy of the "Binary".

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 19:09:20
#239 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4429
From: Portsmouth England

@terminills

I'm not sure that I claimed it did Third parties can always fork off their own versions too (see AEons AmiPDF for example)

Personally I'd rather see a central public repository for AmigaOS4 related (L)GPL stuff, possibly under the joint remit of Hyperion and A-Eon, so that applications can be developed sensibly and multiple versions are avoided.


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number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 20-Aug-2018 19:11:56
#240 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11399
From: In the village

@bobson

Enjoy your A1200.

Quote:
is everything just as litigious


Just a change in the players involved since you were here before.

#6

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