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      /  Hyperion is the end coming
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PosterThread
Rose 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 11:51:28
#261 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@billt

Quote:
As I understand things, one needs only to distribute sources to those people that vendor has distributed the binary to.


Wrong. Straight from GPL faq which covers BASIC things of license.

"If you commercially distribute binaries not accompanied with source code, the GPL says you must provide a written offer to distribute the source code later. When users non-commercially redistribute the binaries they received from you, they must pass along a copy of this written offer. This means that people who did not get the binaries directly from you can still receive copies of the source code, along with the written offer.

The reason we require the offer to be valid for any third party is so that people who receive the binaries indirectly in that way can order the source code from you."

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terminills 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 11:53:56
#262 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@amigakit

AROS SMP with a Winuae 4 port? :D

_________________
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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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Rose 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:05:33
#263 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@billt

Quote:
So it is dual-licensed, or option from the two choices, OSL and/or GPL2, but OSL does look similar in reqiring derivatives to be open-source.


Dual licensing refers "This file" as in this documentation. Actual source mentioned is sata_fsl.c which is part of Linux kernel source and definetly not dual licensed. If it was, it would NEVER be in Linux source.
Quote:

/*
* drivers/ata/sata_fsl.c
*
* Freescale 3.0Gbps SATA device driver
*
* Author: Ashish Kalra
* Li Yang
*
* Copyright (c) 2006-2007, 2011-2012 Freescale Semiconductor, Inc.
*
* This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
* under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the
* Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your
* option) any later version.
*
*/


@hth313

Quote:
As far as I understand from the video he got permission from the author (copyright holder), so there is no problem.


As you see, copyright holder is Freescale (NPX nowdays). So I don't think that their legal would have cleared something which is violation of GPL.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:08:51
#264 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Quote:
AROS project has been open source from its inception. It is available right now for developers to improve. I think that is a good barometer of how an open source platform would develop on the Amiga.


thats because people, who call them "amiga fans", at least those on forums, are usually mainly interested about arguing, drama, demanding "strong leadership", dreaming and waiting. they dont really want any change, im confident, if all these scam subjects, went away, the people would leave.

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nikosidis 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:12:36
#265 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 989
From: Norway, Oslo

@bobson

nikosidis I've been away for a long long time. How complete an implementation is Aros of OS 3.x?

I would say almost complete but at the same time much more advanced with mothern features.
The AROS version for 68k works good and is very compatible. For basic Amiga hardware it is slower cause it got no assembler code and the gfx system need some love to run faster.

Could Aros be used as a stepping stone / subsystem to an NG machine, a bit like how Apple went from OS 9 to OS X? (I remember when PPC was first discussed, Hyperion said they're going PPC because if they went X86 people would just install windows... I didn't understand that argument).

Sure could but not likely to happen. Apple had lot's of professional software etc. I don't see much software that are needed to run on ppc that are not already ported to AROS or i386.

What are the chances of AROS properly running on a Raspberry Pi? Seems the world is crying out for an ARM based mobile OS alternative to iOs and Android... could even sandbox android apps?

It has come pretty far. The main issue here is drivers for sound, network etc. AROS runs hosted under Linux on ARM. That works almost as good as native.

Or, make an AmigaOS layer on top of Linux - like Amithlon, as proposed here: https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/the-amiga-arm-project/

There been many ideas and projects to use Linux kernel to be compatible with all kind of hardware but none of them went public. What works if to run AROS hosted under MAC, Linux or Windows. You can also use som viritual platform. wm-player.

Polish the ui up a bit so it looks 20th century... I know I've been away, so my opinion is moot... I just got very jaded with the entire Amiga scene.

I think its the experience that makes something an Amiga.

Sure is and at least as an open source alternative I prefer Amiga like systems any day.
I use windows at work but at home I use and enjoy AROS. I try to avoid other platforms but
not always possible.

@everyone - I've not read every post, just scanned the thread - but this GPL / Open source stuff... could the main parts of the OS be open sourced, while still allowing for companies to sell commercial software / modules etc? Ultimately, AmigaOS is going to need money to survive - but it also needs users...

I always said it was wrong direction of Hyperion to develop Amiga OS. Much better when they did software. That is what they should have been focusing on. There is absolutly no problem to sell software for AROS. There already is. Hollywood for example.

Last edited by nikosidis on 21-Aug-2018 at 12:53 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:29:26
#266 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

So for example I have Windows 10, I download GIMP, and now suddenly Windows 10 should be under GPL because I'm using GIMP to draw a picture?


You can use whatever with whatever, you can link and mix all kinds of software with all kinds of licenses together - no problem.

The licenses in question are about _distribution_, not use.

_________________
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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:37:20
#267 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@gregthecanuck

Quote:

I understand software development is hard. And expensive.


Nope, it isn't.

It's so cheap and so easy that people do it all the time, even the ones who are not at all skilled at it, new software is coming constantly.

It's a bigger issue that barely anyone has any interest in developing for Amiga, and because of all kinds of traps and loopholes, even many of those who would, just find it too daunting. Also, there is a rather hostile community of users, and an even more hostile community of other "developers", not to mention the most hostile community of so called "owners" who do just about what they can to make things difficult.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:46:12
#268 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@gregthecanuck

Quote:

As I mentioned above I think AROS is adrift. No clear chain of command. No ownership. No roadmap.


No schedule and rocking.

It's better to be adrift than tied to a sinking anchor, like at least OS4 is.

Last edited by kolla on 21-Aug-2018 at 12:46 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:51:59
#269 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@nikosidis

Quote:


It has come pretty far. The main issue here is drivers for sound, network etc. AROS runs hosted under Linux on ARM. That works almost as good as native.


I wish people could understand that "hosted" _is_ native - there is no CPU emulation or whatever - it is AROS using APIs of host operating system instead of mocking about with hardware on its own.

Quote:

Or, make an AmigaOS layer on top of Linux - like Amithlon, as proposed here: https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/the-amiga-arm-project/


AROS hosted is just like Amithlon, an AmigaOS layer on top of Linux - it just doesn't do the 68k emulation/big-endian-thing that Amithlon does, because it really doesn't have to - it is native in all ways.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:54:59
#270 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@nikosidis

Quote:
Polish the ui up a bit so it looks 20th century...


It does look 20th century, just like all the other Amiga systems, they all come from the 20th century.

Or do you mean 21st century perhaps? :)

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nikosidis 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 12:59:22
#271 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 989
From: Norway, Oslo

@kolla

I have no problem with hosted if AROS could use native gfx. Accellerated 2D and 3D.
I know that at some point AROS hosted had 3D accelleration working. Now it does not.

Network is also a pain to set up but that is of cause just a matter of someone doing a
better more easy interface for it.

Pascal did AEROS that builds on that idea.

https://www.aeros-os.org/

I'm thinking I might contact Pascal to make a plan for something like he have done there but native gfx

Last edited by nikosidis on 21-Aug-2018 at 01:02 PM.

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amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 13:08:01
#272 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2430
From: www.amigakit.com

@bobson

Welcome back. Good to see you lurking around here again :)

_________________
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Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

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Nonefornow 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 16:05:01
#273 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 263
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@nikosidis

Quote:
AROS on the other had is very portable and is made to run on all mothern CPUs.


And also not so modern. I have been running AROS since version 1.5.2 (now I am running 2.2.3) on a IBM Thinkpad laptop.

And that's the beauty of it. Just about any spare computer laying around can be installed with AROS (Icaros Desktop).

I have never tried Aspireos.

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simplex 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 16:18:33
#274 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@kolla

Quote:
@gregthecanuck

Quote:

I understand software development is hard. And expensive.

Nope, it isn't.

That depends very much on the software in question.

Simple apps like card games? Not really a problem for someone with some experience and enough time/resources to get card designs, etc. That said, if you've ever tried to get Google Play Services working, you might know that it's not very easy to accomplish basic things, and they distribute sample framework code that (a) only works on one version of Google Play Services, and (b) offers a link for help to a Google developer's GooglePlus page that features softcore porn.

Something tougher, like a computer algebra system, or even an operating system? Typically you need months just to get something primitive working, and lots of experience already. It requires years with a good team if you want something commercial, and lots of resources.

That said, I agree with your main point: developers with time and resources aren't interested in AmigaOS, and developers interested in AmigaOS don't have time and resources (of which some includes the poisonous atmosphere).

Last edited by simplex on 21-Aug-2018 at 04:19 PM.

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bobson 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 18:24:13
#275 ]
Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2018
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Is their a patreon for ARM based AROS? Seriously - I know a few people who run very succesfull Patreons - it opens support / sponsorship up to a much wider audience.

If the bumps are ironed out, a Raspberry pi AROS would have access to a huge user base - it then becomes a case of marketing...

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bison 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 18:28:09
#276 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2052
From: N-Space

@simplex

Quote:
That depends very much on the software in question.

This is the right answer.

If the problem domain is simple and/or well understood, and the libraries and frameworks used are well-written and documented, then it can be quite easy. But I've also spent days digging through Xorg code trying to figure out why some obscure corner case does something unexpected, and that's not easy, at least not for me.

_________________
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Lou 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 18:31:04
#277 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@bobson

The Efika port is as close to a RPi port as I've seen.

Last edited by Lou on 21-Aug-2018 at 06:31 PM.

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bison 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 18:42:58
#278 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2052
From: N-Space

@kolla

Quote:
I wish people could understand that "hosted" _is_ native - there is no CPU emulation or whatever - it is AROS using APIs of host operating system instead of mocking about with hardware on its own.

OK, by that definition, i.e, no CPU emulation, it's native. But it's not "native native," it's "sort of native."

Case in point: an AROS app that is running on AROS hosted on Linux is being handled by two schedulers, the AROS scheduler directly, and the Linux scheduler indirectly. This hypothetical AROS app is being scheduled by AROS EXEC, which is running in a Linux process, and the process that is running AROS EXEC is being scheduled by Linux.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 18:44:17
#279 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11402
From: In the village

@bobson

Some history, since you've missed a few years:

My side of what happened with Raspberry Pi

#6

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bobson 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 21-Aug-2018 19:37:04
#280 ]
Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2018
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

@number6

So Hyperion shut it down? Its unclear from the thread what actually happened and the video is private.

This is such a shame.

The Pi's user-base is HUGE. It's also cheap enough for an impulse purchase... I wish I had the skills to help with this - I'm a glorified JS / node developer. I just think that for AmigaOS to have any success - it needs to be running on commodity hardware... @amigakit could start selling bundles - like Desktop Dynamite, but with a Pi...

How much more work is needed to make a viable pi version?

Faster, desktop ARM processors are rumoured - and I understand that ARM cores can switch endianess (that was another reason given for PPC)

I read somewhere about the A1222? That it is to be sold at cost to encourage a userbase... well - it would probably be cheaper to give Rasbperry pi's away for free...

I have a pal who is a very big deal at Raspberry Pi, involved with the hardware design. I've got him on speed dial if it's worth speaking with him?

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