@JimIgou

Can't pin it down but these are the differences .

R7-250x has a higher clock speed than the R7-370. 1000Mhz vs 925Mhz

R7-250X had more shading units than the Rx550 . 640 vs 512

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Dear Hyperion ,

Please release some thing to show signs of life .
Free updates, Paid Update , demo of something or even a Video showing something new .

Thanks .

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@tonyw

Quote:

I'd rather design and build for new hardware, not stuff that's 25-30 years old.

+1

Speaking of new hardware, the X5000 is a cool piece of kit, but there are two things that spoil the party for me. First, the lack of DMA support in the graphics.library currently leaves a lot to be desired in the video playback department. My second gripe is the ridiculous behaviour of the CD filesystem. I hope these are just teething problems associated with the beta state of the OS, but like others, I just can't see any signs of these things being worked on.

I'm afraid buyers of the hardware will continue being disappointed, prospective buyers will continue putting off the purchase, and A-EON/AmigaKit will continue losing sales until such fundamental things are sorted out.

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Quote:

tonyw wrote: Maybe Cloanto hold the view that concentrating on the 68K market is the only way to make money out of the Amiga scene. Maybe they see support for the PPC hardware as insufficient to keep the market viable.

Is the Amiga PPC market growing or shrinking? Is it already too small to be viable? Is PPC support in general shrinking? Is the 68k Amiga market growing or shrinking? Is the Amiga 68k or PPC market bigger? Which has more software? Which has a smaller footprint? Which has more retro and hobby appeal? Which is not dependent on the other or it would fail?

Quote:

Can't see it that way myself. I'd rather design and build for new hardware, not stuff that's 25-30 years old.

New hardware seems to be a relative term for the Amiga. It looks like quirky old embedded PPC hardware which is priced like new hardware to me. There will be no new designs as AArch64 has replaced PPC. All existing semi-modern PPC designs likely have the Spectre flaw. This is a failure of the CPU to properly isolate supervisor and user space which means high security is not possible without giving up significant performance. It appears Amiga PPC doesn't prioritize security, memory protection, resource tracking, SMP, 64 bit, etc. but then why do you need new hardware? My 68060 does *not* have the Spectre flaw. Yes, it would be nice to have some more 68k performance which would be possible with a semi-modern ASIC. Mass production using older under utilized foundries could produce a 68060@500MHz for a few dollars each (sharing production with an embedded partner). Use an FPGA for the chipset and you have compatibility with much more than the Amiga. Think of a much more powerful FleaFPGA Ohm ($45 U.S. on INDIEGOGO) for under $100. Continued sabotaging of 68k AmigaOS development is not going to cut it though. Using 68k AmigaOS sales to try to keep the Amiga PPC ship afloat is not going to cut it either. RIP Amiga PPC. Wake up and smell the reality or go down with the Hyperion ship again.

@Trixie
And even if someoone will start to do DMA support in graphics library for x5k, it will be unknown when it will be released by hyperion, whos drop idea of offten updates

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@kas1e

Would you be willing to pay for an update including DMA support if it were offered ?

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @Trixie And even if someoone will start to do DMA support in graphics library for x5k, it will be unknown when it will be released by hyperion, whos drop idea of offten updates

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@Spectre660

I do.

Virginio

@Hyperion & A-Eon

An opportunity for some goodwill and some revenue ?
(and to prove KL wrong)

Last edited by Spectre660 on 11-Aug-2018 at 06:06 PM.

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@SimplePPC


Quote:

Ask yourself, who gains by doing all this? Now i can make a statement of all this but to what end ? It only adds fuel to the argument and makes the trolls happy. I rather spend my time betatesting OS4.x and some other things :)

Tone-deafness seems to be contagious at Hyperion...

@kas1e

Quote:

even if someoone will start to do DMA support in graphics library for x5k, it will be unknown when it will be released by hyperion

I wonder what the problem can be? Don't remember reading about any DMA-related issues in the graphics.library on any of the preceding 0S4-capable machines. What's so special about the X5000 in this respect?

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@amigakit

[quote]I am sure from this statement that you are not aware of the developments of Warp3D Nova (modern Shader based 3D support) and OpenGLES 2.0 library[/quote

What, you mean the cut down open gl standard from 2007? Yes, I am aware. That's why I made my comment. What do you define as "modern pixel shaders"? A cut down version of ps2.0 from the same time frame? Ditto.

The x5000 may "give a very good account of itself", but its still completely incapable of touching the surface of what the cards can do. It's pretty much retro specs vs. the rest of the world. Complete mismatch. Add the lack of dma to OS4.x graphics.library to the equation and the results are comical.

@Trixie
Quote:

I wonder what the problem can be? Don't remember reading about any DMA-related issues in the graphics.library on any of the preceding 0S4-capable machines. What's so special about the X5000 in this respect?

I think there is nothing so special with x5000 in that regards, its just i think that a-eon have no interest to pay for developers, who will upgrade OS components, which are in the hyperion's hands.

I mean for example even if Hans able to do it (and he busy with everything else), then of course better priority for aeon its to have their own stuff done, and update os components to which they have access only when it really necessary.

Also if i remember rigth those who do DMA in graphics.library for x1000, not so motivated to do so at moment. And not the last moment there is that no one will pay them for that , and aeon do not want to do so for not their components :)

All imho of course.

But not having DMA in grapphics library, and GART support in whole, but jumping on making polaris drivers, are strange choice of priorities, for sure .. But maybe that again leads to "why we should update OS, if OS is not in our hands".

Last edited by kas1e on 12-Aug-2018 at 07:02 AM.

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@kas1e

Well, then AEON should go with AROS

Ofcourse that would require a mammoth amount of work, and then they might aswell just use Linux.

@fishy_fis

Quote:

What, you mean the cut down open gl standard from 2007? Yes, I am aware. That's why I made my comment.

GLES2 cut out the legacy crap that was weighing OpenGL down, which is a good thing (and one of the reasons I suggested targeting GLES2). Kas1e has made some progress with GL4ES which allows you to use desktop OpenGL features on top of GLES2. A few GLES3+ features already work, although things like geometry and compute shaders aren't there yet. Either way, it's light-years ahead of what we were using before.

Quote:

What do you define as "modern pixel shaders"? A cut down version of ps2.0 from the same time frame? Ditto.

Nope. Warp3D Nova can already compile GLSL shaders that PS v2.0 hardware can't handle.

Quote:

The x5000 may "give a very good account of itself", but its still completely incapable of touching the surface of what the cards can do. It's pretty much retro specs vs. the rest of the world. Complete mismatch. Add the lack of dma to OS4.x graphics.library to the equation and the results are comical.

Perhaps, in your opinion. The results look nice, though.


@kas1e
Quote:

Also if i remember rigth those who do DMA in graphics.library for x1000, not so motivated to do so at moment. And not the last moment there is that no one will pay them for that , and aeon do not want to do so for not their components :)

I did the X1000 DMA code in the graphics.library. However, I was given working DMA code created by those working on the ethernet driver. That made the job relatively easily.

For the X5000, it's just a matter of someone doing the work. And then it needs to be released ASAP...

Hans

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@K-L

Quote:

K-L wrote: ... New systems ? AmigaOne A1222 will be out when Polaris cards will be unavailable and the only remaining cards will be Vega 56 and Vega 64 (and let's no talk about AmigaOne X5000/40).

Nope.

Interestingly, I was really close to buying a Vega card and targeting that instead of Polaris. Sadly, the documentation/code needed just wasn't available at the time (big critical bits missing). That would have been the most expensive graphics card I've ever bought (only the very high end was available at the time).


Quote:

Don't get me wrong : Hans' work is impressive but useless for the moment. Polaris cards won't bring anything new that we don't already have (and breaking the memory barrier will also be present in SI drivers).

IMHO, being able to buy readily available cards is useful.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 12-Aug-2018 at 08:33 AM.

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@K-L

Quote:

K-L wrote: ... Warp3D Nova, I've already answered about this specific topic (yes two games).

If I wrote a small game to make it an uneven three, would you stick around a bit longer?

While we're on the topic. I'd like to see more people use GLES2/Nova, so please let me know if you've got any bright ideas to get more people using it. I already think we need GL4ES to be polished up and available. AFAIK, it's waiting on updates that will be in the next Enhancer Software Pack.

Hans

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I am more annoyed by lack of Roadshow updates in OS4. It's not without irony that the 68k version of Roadshow is now long ahead of what's in OS4. I have OS4.1FEu2 on my A3000/CSPPC/CVPPC, and bugs that were long fixed on 68k Roadshow are still there on OS4, and a few of them makes the system rather unusable.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

Wow, there are still the usual trolls who hate OS4, Hyperion or whatever.

Guys it just a computer not life or death, its only a hobby not a religion!

I'm so glad I left the NG scene, so many zealots (Yest, I was one of them) on both sides bitching about this and that and seemingly not actually enjoying the systems they supposedly love so much.

Why is that? is this forum full of disgruntled Mac users? Does Microsoft still perceive Amiga and all its tiny, tiny fragments a bigger threat than Linux?

No, the biggest problem with "Amiga" is not Cloanto, not Hyperion, not Amiga INC. Its you guys, the users!

Feel free to pull me apart Trolls, your not real Amiga users whatever you call Amiga, your just here to vent you frustrations out on anyone who happens to disagree with you & spread FUD hoping to influence others into your personal point of view, believe it or not other people are allowed to disagree with you.

There is no good or evil here, just a couple of company's still trying to make money in an ungrateful market of people who would have a month long argument on what colour Jay miners dog was.
They are the real Amiga fans, they have invested far more than most of you could, they have invested their time, cash and life into this dank little market that seems to just want to see them fail all because of some petty vendetta that makes no sense at all in the real world.

Grow up, out outside, get a Woman, get drunk, have kids.

And most important of all, enjoy your Amiga, whatever flavor it is!

Wizz.

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@Hans
For gl4es there needs latest nova being released for public, then we need Daniel to made a v1.22 of ogles library where he add that "wtf ubyte" fixes, and so release it for public too.

And then, there is last bugs stay, which randomly trash textures in "letters fall" , which also seems on our side, but that also need some work

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

What, you mean the cut down open gl standard from 2007? Yes, I am aware. That's why I made my comment. What do you define as "modern pixel shaders"? A cut down version of ps2.0 from the same time frame? Ditto.

I think there are some misconceptions here. Just because Warp3D Nova has an OpenGLES 2 wrapper it does not mean that Nova API is limited at that level in terms of features. In fact it already has features from the later OpenGLES 3 and has some modern features borrowed from Vulkan. The Warp3D Nova project is only a few years old and it has been constantly developed and will continue to push forward to match mainstream developments.

Besides that our ogles2.library contains quite some extensions over basic OpenGLES 2 too.

Quote:

The x5000 may "give a very good account of itself", but its still completely incapable of touching the surface of what the cards can do.

Most low end/average PC's cannot either- the modern day GPU architecture harnesses immense power. Take for instance in the mainstream computing where the GPU is not fully occupied whilst waiting for the PC to "catch up": it can now apportion some of the GPU resources to perform audio processing with AMD's True Audio Next API as well as graphics processing work.

Radeon graphics cards are so low cost these days that it would be remiss of us to utilise even a portion of the power and potential from them on the flagship X5000 system.

@kas1e
Quote:

For gl4es there needs latest nova being released for public, then we need Daniel to made a v1.22 of ogles library where he add that "wtf ubyte" fixes, and so release it for public too.

Warp3D Nova v1.56 is imminent and will be available along with the latest OpenGL ES 2 library this month in the Enhancer Software v1.4 update and through Updater tool.

Last edited by amigakit on 12-Aug-2018 at 12:55 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 12-Aug-2018 at 11:29 AM.

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