@Nonefornow

Quote:

Either way Amiga Classic users with OS version before 3.X are ignored. But I have a feeling that there is a large number of such users.

That's a good point. I use 1.3 for games most of the time.

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@bison

You mean you use 1.3 kickstart for boot strapping old games, not sure it qualifies as "using" the OS :)

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@g01df1sh

Just to nit pick. MorphOS and AROS are AmigaOS clones. And Amithlon isn't an AmigaOS at all, it's a method to emulate AmigaOS, which in this case falls under the banner of OS3.9 .

@Hypex

just to nit pick... ;)

partly aros and morphos are more compatible than AmigaOS

So what is orginal and what is clone? ;)

@kolla

Quote:

You mean you use 1.3 kickstart for boot strapping old games, not sure it qualifies as "using" the OS :)

Kickstart contains EXEC, Intuition and the DOS library, so I'm using more of the OS than not. Back in the day I used to think it was a lot less, little more than the equivalent of a PC BIOS.

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@Thread

I STILL don't understand why OS3.1.4 has proved so popular when it offers virtually nothing that OS3.9 doesn't! So there are more third party hacks in OS3.9, so what? It works, looks good and with TurboPrint, Oxypatcher, P96 etc is perfectly servicable and great compared to dull minimalist Workbench 3.1. Glow Icons won me over to OS3.5 and the AmiDock with Unarchiver and search built in made me update to OS3.9. What has caused people to want to 'update' to OS3.1.4? I honestly don't know! It is not because they love Hyperion that's for sure

Last edited by BigD on 09-Feb-2019 at 10:56 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 09-Feb-2019 at 10:55 PM.

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AOS4.1

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@BigD

Reasons to buy 3.1.4.

1. It's had a lot of bug fixes and improvements under the hood which are not present in 3.9.

2. You can mix use it with 3.9 to get the best of both updates.

3. It had lower memory requirements which is handy for systems with limited memory such as the Minimig.

4. Buying it increases the chances of further versions which may end up surpassing 3.9 in every way.

@Rob

Quote:

4. Buying it increases the chances of further versions which may end up surpassing 3.9 in every way.

That is the only valid reason IMHO. But the logic seems twisted. Cloanto own the rights to OS3.1 and now it is announced they own the actual Amiga IP itself after buying it of Itec LLP. So really holding off and allowing Cloanto to gain complete control of OS3.x development would probably be the best eventuality. They are a sustainable company that would pay developers I'm sure. Perpetuating Hyperion's weird non-business plan is not working and OS3.1.4 doesn't justify the prolonged legal dispute with a 'good' Amiga company in Cloanto who would have hade a great ally.

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@BigD

Honestly i can understand all that happiness about Cloanto, sure it's a glorious Amiga name, but In latest 20 years I can't remember any single program (for Amiga) developed by them, except for an Amiga emulator for Windows based to UAE ...

As for Hyperion, better if they concentrate themself in AmigaOS4 instead of wasting their time with the ancient OS3.x

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@samo79

they did not "concentrate" on 3.1, Hyperion just used a chance to milk the market. The work was basically done by two developers with signed NDA and access to source code who offered their work for free so Hyperion got 3.1.4 for zero and sold it for 30 EUR. I would say clever business. I personal would have morale problems to act this way, even if the devs offered that themselfes.

So short... 3.1.4 did not slow development of 4.X and also not helped 4.X.

And what fantastic software did Hyperion exactly besides 4.x and that based on free unpaid work. A crazy business modell in my view.

The fight between Cloanto and Hyperion is basically a fight about the classic market where you can still make some money in opposite obviously the NG market so we will see how it ends. We cannot know that. That some have preferences is because the community was polarized in last 20 years. You are not really neutral either I assume ;). I personal prefer Cloanto because I had several contacts to them and know them as kind persons. And I think they are more open for collaboration. Hyperion with their NDAs and attorney as owner never cooperated in any way, even when Toni Wilen offered them a new market they neither gave money nor technical support to him. So if I have to decide myself for one side I would prefer Cloanto.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 10-Feb-2019 at 09:19 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 10-Feb-2019 at 09:11 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 10-Feb-2019 at 09:05 AM.

@OlafS25

I wonder how many people would have "morale problems" if someone made a big donation to Hyperion (basically cancelling all their debts) and then paying the developers to do the work.

Would we have morale problems towards this "someone"? Probably yes, in both cases, if he spend his own hard morally accepted and legally earned money or if he was a drug lord and donated drug money..

A totally different morale would be if this someone bought Hyperion, and payed the
developers. Then it's all legit, legal and part of business..

Last edited by Amigo1 on 10-Feb-2019 at 09:12 AM.

@Amigo1

I have no problems with someone wasting his or her money if he or she wants to. I would think totally crazy but everyone can decide. Money from illegal sources would be different, that would even be a matter of justice. And if Hyperion would be bought by someone it is ok too. If I would be happy or not would depend on the new owners. I think in such a small market cooperation is necessary and I would hope that a new owner would be open for that.

@OlafS25

You could not have written it better. Besides the "justice matter" wich is a totally different pandora's box. I was just talking about the moral.

So I really don't see the wrongs of the developers, which instead of having donated a big sum of money -they obviously do not have- they "donated" their free developing time.

It's their decision, as far as we all know they did voluntarily.
I for me, did buy 3.1.4 because I think it's an appreciation to them and they might be happy to see the results of their work is enjoyed.

Of course we can dissect and reorganise every little aspect of the action of having bought 3.1.4 from Hyperion, reorganise every little implication to form a totally different picture of the whole, based on our personal view, with the scope of reinforcing it.

All this just to express an opinion?

Last edited by Amigo1 on 10-Feb-2019 at 09:56 AM.

Yes it was their decision to offer the work for free because they are idealists and it was the only chance to get it to the community. But the acting of Hyperion selling it and not giving back anything is not how I would act in this situation. Even if the devs would not want money they could still give back money by donating f.e. hardware. But the same happened with Toni Wilen before and I assume not all rumors about Hyperion about past are wrong so it is certainly not new. I am also not aware of any cooperation from Hyperion with anyone else. So as I wrote if I would have to decide for one side I would be more hopeful regarding Cloanto. Milking idealists like Hyperion tries as business model will not work.

@OlafS25

Quote:

The fight between Cloanto and Hyperion is basically a fight about the classic market where you can still make some money in opposite obviously the NG market

You can make money in both markets although Classic has much more potential, especially in the near term. The fight is not about the classic market.

The fight is about the settlement agreement and the restrictions it places on Cloanto. Even though Cloanto now own more or less all of the I.P. and branding they can't sell or license hardware called Amiga with Amiga OS or an OS that replicates it's functionality. The need to get the agreement terminated to branch out beyond Amiga Forever and whatever products and licensing Amiga were able to do.

Quote:

I think they are more open for collaboration. Hyperion with their NDAs and attorney as owner never cooperated in any way

I don't see the problem with NDAs. If you don't like it then don't sign it and move on.

Quote:

Toni Wilen offered them a new market they neither gave money nor technical support to him

Did he ask for either? Did he add PPC support on the premise that Hyperion would send him money?

@Rob

So I guess is about Amiga Forever running on top of Knoppix Linux, on standard PC, with Amiga sticker on it.

That going to cost more $$$ for the PC with then the PC without the sticker and with free version of WinUAE installed. totally useless.

If you're interested in that kind of thing you can go buy the Alice laptop, witch is exactly the same as the stuff you get from Cloanto.

My guess they back to branding Android phones and coffee cups and shirts and belts and all sort junk Amiga to sell it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Feb-2019 at 02:30 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Feb-2019 at 02:28 PM.

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@Rob

No you OS 4 guys do not understand or do not want to understand

If I make profit by the work of others and perhaps how should I call it politely are a little controversial and do want to improve my image then I would say thank you and give at least something even if not forced to. Of course if I am only interested in making maximum money myself and give a shit what other people think of me then I can ignore that.

And no again... even if Hyperion is your hero it is about classic market. Earlier Hyperion did 4.X on PPC and Cloanto did classic market. Then Hyperion integrated roms in 4.X, Cloanto did not react. Then Hyperion gave rom licenses to iComp from Cloantos view getting in Cloantos market. Then 3.1.4 and then it was enough and the battle started.

And regarding NDA, noone with clear mind would sign a NDA at Hyperion but obviously in the past developers signed it just to have a chance to help with AmigaOS, the "only true Amiga successor". And those signed NDAs still exist hindering those persons to help f.e. Aros even if they wanted. Hyperion never cooperated or worked together with anyone else. I do not understand why you guys are all the time defending them... It is about money and we will see who will win. Some would prefer Cloanto (and I wrote why I prefer them) others Hyperion (f.e. you). The court will decide.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 10-Feb-2019 at 02:51 PM.

@Rob

Quote:

I don't see the problem with NDAs. If you don't like it then don't sign it and move on.

Which is what I presume most people did, very few want to get entangled in NDAs with them. Hyperion's software license is ridiculous enough, can only guess how their NDA is. Meanwhile, the developers and testers keep using lack of man power as an excuse for the state of development.

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@OlafS25

Quote:

No you OS 4 guys do not understand or do not want to understand [...] I do not understand why you guys are all the time defending them...

Please do not generalize. Few OS4 users actually support Hyperion in their legal battle with the rest of the world, or condone what they have been doing in the past year.

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