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      /  Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
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Poll : Which CPU architecture are you most interested in for AmigaOS in the future?
68k
ARM
POWER
PowerPC
RISC-V
x86_64
other
 
PosterThread
K-L 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 6:43:06
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1290
From: Oullins, France

@Thread

Yes, vote has been hijacked.

Seeing Raptor POWER systems, I tkink it would be the good way (and the fastest one) to bring AmigaOS 4.x on it.

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K-L 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 6:43:21
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1290
From: Oullins, France

Ooopsi... Delete this one

Last edited by K-L on 29-Jan-2019 at 06:43 AM.

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ilbarbax 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 7:48:23
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2010
Posts: 165
From: Italy

@ 111 voting for X86

Why you are not actively supporting AROS? I've never seen 111 user around aros_exec.

Leave Amiga_OS where it is and support Aros that has more chances.

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Fl@sh 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 9:11:51
#24 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 95
From: Napoli - Italy

@all

I think rather than a new cpu the best solution for AmigaOS (for AmigaOS I intend AmigaOS4) is to go open source and let community support itself on different platforms.

So Trevor.. if you are realy an Amiga lover buy Hyperion and make a present for all us amiga guys, publishing all AmigaOS sources.

I really think this is the only way to survive and grow, sadly expanding cpu compatibility to today commons isn't sufficient to assure us long live.

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OlafS25 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 9:51:26
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5450
From: Unknown

@matthey

it is in this context a pure theoretical discussion but I would decide for ARM because ARM is cheap and powerful and communities like that using Raspberry are more open than the average Smartphone or PC user.

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Amigo1 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 10:00:24
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1490
From: Cork Ireland

@Fl@sh

lol.

Fl@sh if you are a real amiga fan worthy of coming on any amiga website and/or using any incarnation of Amiga, Amiga clones, Amiga emulators or talking about amiga, you should sell your house, your car or if you don't have, any of your possessions (including any amiga classic hardware, Pegasus, MorphOS machines, AmigaNG).

Keep just the bare minimum to survive and a cheap android mobile phone to sometimes visit the amiga fora and donate everything else to Trevor to help him buy Hyperion and eventually reunite and buy off every needed Licence from "#?(Cloanto|Amiga#?|Amino#?|Penti#?|Gatew#?"Rexx#?.org|Agfa#?|Commo#?)".
Please Fl@sh make this present for all us amiga fans. If you don't want for all amiga fans, then just for me.

Thanks.

p.s. I love Naples been there once, best pizza ever!

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BigD 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 10:07:32
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@Fl@sh

Quote:
So Trevor.. if you are realy an Amiga lover buy Hyperion and make a present for all us amiga guys, publishing all AmigaOS sources.


This isn't a charity. Trevor at least has to attempt to break even to avoid falling out with his family etc. Imagine if Jay Miner and Dave Morse had decided to develop a computer with socialist ideals to give away to society. How far do you think it would have got? PC graphics card companies would have assimilated the Amiga custom chips and then SOLD it for profit.

It's too late to challenge Linux so let Trevor have his fun and support the community but don't take the p$@ and expect everything for nothing!!

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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OlafS25 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 10:14:59
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5450
From: Unknown

@BigD

The remains of the community are not big enough to support commercial development of a NG OS except perhaps the 68k platform (to a certain degree like seen with 3.1.4)

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Turrican3 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 13:15:04
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 317
From: Italy

Voted ARM because it seems to me it could very well lead to a modern A500/1200-class machine, i.e. cheap but with reasonable performance.

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bison 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 15:12:20
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1292
From: N-Space

@matthey

I voted ARM because I think something like the RPi with more RAM would make a nice Amiga. But X86_64 would be a close second. In fact, it would be best to have both to ensure that the userland APIs are portable between ISAs.

Five or ten years in the future I may have voted RISC-V. I hope it catches on.

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BigD 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 15:19:49
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@cdimauro

I voted PowerPC because it's all we have. We are locked to this IPA and old 68k Software that (at present) can be run easily on PPC due to endian compatibility. Even if the old software packages bought by A-EON are updated on PPC the financial risks involved in porting them to ARM or x86-64 is massive, ditto Hyperion's OS. We live or die with PowerPC and not Vampire or RaspPi can change that.

Last edited by BigD on 29-Jan-2019 at 03:21 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 29-Jan-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 15:41:20
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5450
From: Unknown

@BigD

why "we"?

You use AmigaOS already?

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Amigo1 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 16:42:23
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1490
From: Cork Ireland

@matthey

I will not vote because my vote doesn't change anything in this Amiga-democracy. Because my knowledge of the market is not good enough and it would not be wise to pick a choice that will potentially (but then again very unlikely) influence a decision of the higher ups and lead to a situation which leads to a cul-de-sac.

Anyway, I like the idea of a Power Amiga, more than Risc-V or ARM. But >68x80 would be nice too, any chance it will leave the Virtual-FPGA-reality and become real?

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pavlor 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 17:12:02
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@matthey

x86_64. What else for desktop/laptop today?

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BigD 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 17:13:25
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4820
From: UK

@OlafS25

The key to this poll is the world 'interest'. I have an interest in AmigaOS and the Tabor in particular. I realy cannot see a situation where the Tabor fails and yet magically A-EON / Hyperion have the ability to support another CPU platform. And no, giving source code stuff away free is not sustainable or wise from A-EON's point of view. The profit has (other than Apple and maybe C= in a good year in Europe) been in software. You HAVE to make a profit and you have to feed the developers. The Amiga market has been pretty bad to its developers with piracy in the 90s and now OS3.1.4 developers not earning a dime!

... I personally don't see my own 68k machine as the future as we do at some point need to move on even if its to run our classic programs over HDMI, upscaled and with (PPC native) updates of Bars n' Pipes, Image FX and Octamed.

... that's not to say I don't support 68k development. I've bought Worthy and Tanks Furry and I would buy updates to DrawStudio, PageStream, TurboPrint, Scala and Deluxe Paint given the chance!

Last edited by BigD on 29-Jan-2019 at 05:16 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 29-Jan-2019 at 05:14 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 17:28:05
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

davidf215 wrote:
I'm still deciding. I am, however, leaning towards staying with PowerPC.

Reasons for maintaining PowerPC for next few years:
1. Investment money has been put into AmigaOS to run on PPC and create NG Amiga systems.


More standardized hardware means fewer bugs and better compatibility. Also, big endian helps compatibility. On the flip side, PPC practically made an architecture change to PPC Embedded Application Binary Interface (EABI) hardware which is often accompanied by ISA changes as can be seen in the Tabor e500v2 core. The idea was to reduce hardware requirements to compete more with ARM for the embedded market but this failed. Some of the last so called PPC hardware is actually EABI PPC hardware which requires substantial effort to support as it does not follow classic PPC standards. Also, out of development PPC hardware is quickly falling behind so no longer NG while having little retro appeal.

Quote:

2. Because of #1, systems are available to purchase and sales are increasing/continuing.


PPC CPUs will be available for awhile but prices of CPUs are more likely to increase than decrease over time. Tabor will likely increase AmigaOS PPC sales but it leaves the PPC standard and lowers it. Hyperion will likely lose money on every copy of AmigaOS 4 sold because the PPC market is not large enough to pay for their development costs.

Quote:

3. AmigaOS needs platform stability. Introducing another architecture fragments the AmigaOS platform even further.


Absolutely true. This is one of the reasons why I would like to see a return to the 68k. AmigaOS 4 was working on the 68k until Hyperion made the arrogant mistake of discontinuing it. If AmigaOS 3.1.4 and Trevor bailout rumors are true, this mistake should have resulted in their bankruptcy.

Quote:

4. Because of #3, platform stability is important, and building a stronger user base in the current AmigaOS market is more important right now than porting to another architecture, IMO.


The AmigaOS PPC user base is too small to be profitable for Hyperion and Tabor is not likely to change that. If Tabor does sell well enough to ramp up production, it would be good to upgrade the CPU to use the more compatible e500mc core but the damage will have already been done with the less compatible e500v2 core of lowering the standard and making purchasers of the 1st run of Tabors unhappy.

Quote:

5. Prevent more work and costs for the already limited number of AmigaOS system and app developers.


Maintaining a standard API between PPC and 68k AmigaOS would have prevented the split between 2 factions and made 3rd party development easier. Instead of 68k AmigaOS, PPC AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS, there would have been only AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS with AmigaOS being the largest user base for developers to target.

Quote:

POWER and Arm are good alternatives. However, IMO any new CPU architecture for AmigaOS should be a 5+ year plan.

The POWER architecture would be good for introducing a server line for the AmigaOne brand. This product line would run primarily Linux and maybe AmigaOS depending on the solution.


SMP, memory protection and security are extremely important for the server market. It would be sad to sell Amiga branded servers running Linux/BSD (Rebranded Raptor servers?). Maybe AmigaOS could be virtualized to run on a single core though. That would be almost as bad as the rebranded Commodore ARM devices using UAE.

New Amiga slogan: "We started the multimedia revolution but now we are here to make a cheap buck".

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redfox 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 18:42:43
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1661
From: Canada

Yes, I would love to see an "Amiga" tablet or "Amiga" smartphone, but that's only a dream.

Hyperion/A-EON/Trevor/etc have enough on their plate right now.

AmigaOS4 is locked into PPC hardware. As long as inventory exits, this will not change.
They are supporting X5000, X1000, SAM460, SAM440, AmigaOne XE, MicroA1, Pegasos II, and classic Amiga systems with compatible PPC accelerator cards. They are working on Tabor.

68K and PPC are the most likely candidates for present and future projects.

---
redfox

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amigang 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 18:43:19
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1437
From: Cheshire, England

I voted for other, I kinda get feeling now AmigaOS should become a lot less hardware independent and maybe have some kind of Virtual Processor (tao intent os anyone?) so it would be easy to run the OS on different hardware.

UAE the amiga emulation is a perfect example of that, it been ported to pretty much every platform you can think of and usually all can run up to A1200 spec now. Image if somehow that could be replicated for OS4 and still maintain its support for higher graphics features.

Or we go down the cloud route like Freindup / SAE (http://scriptedamigaemulator.net/ )

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Trekiej 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 18:55:27
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

@amigang

I believe that is what qemu is going to provide when the "pass through" gets added.

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Fl@sh 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 18:58:40
#40 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 95
From: Napoli - Italy

@Amigo1

..Trevor is rich and can do it, I do not ..

PS; When you'll came back to Naples call me for the best pizza you'll ever eat!

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