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      /  Where be Tabor?
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PosterThread
Petah 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 5-Apr-2019 21:11:54
#41 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 370
From: EU <3 ❤️

Why would you ask that question?

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Amigo1 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 5-Apr-2019 21:19:00
#42 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1536
From: the Clouds

@Petah

Probably the Catweasel would be the best solution, but there are really hard to find.

I had read about a solution implementing a Arduino, but I can't find the Bookmark.. Maybe it was only to connect a keyboard to a PC, I can't remember..

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Rose 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 5-Apr-2019 22:05:13
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 674
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
i dont see the T1020 series the only T series available on the site are the



Mfr. Part No.
T1022NSN7MQB
Mouser Part No
841-T1022NSN7MQB
NXP / Freescale Microprocessors - MPU QorIQ, 2x e5500, 1200MHz, DDR3L/4, No Crypto, No Switch, 0 to 105 60
In Stock
1: 68,02
5: 65,89
10: 64,62
25: 61,65
100: 58,25

Funnily enoug, P1022 is around 80-90.

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Rose 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 5-Apr-2019 22:06:47
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 674
From: Unknown

@Amigo1

Quote:

Amigo1 wrote:
@Petah

Probably the Catweasel would be the best solution, but there are really hard to find.

I had read about a solution implementing a Arduino, but I can't find the Bookmark.. Maybe it was only to connect a keyboard to a PC, I can't remember..

You mean this one?

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tlosm 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 6-Apr-2019 0:26:06
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@Rose

is need to see the caches this make the cpu more hight in prize

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BigD 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 6-Apr-2019 11:01:41
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@tlosm

Quote:
is need to see the caches this make the cpu more hight in prize


'PRICE' not prize!

Again, it would be fun to have a 'prize' for the best AmigaWorld user's selection of the most suitable current NXP CPU for a Tabor replacement but we're discussing 'PRICE' / cost of the available chips here!

Last edited by BigD on 06-Apr-2019 at 11:03 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 06-Apr-2019 at 11:02 AM.

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Rob 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 6-Apr-2019 11:51:09
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5854
From: S.Wales

@Petah

Quote:
Why would you ask that question?


Maybe I'm just to used to the PC105 layout and having those useful extra keys.

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tlosm 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 7-Apr-2019 1:24:40
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2685
From: Amiga land

@BigD



Quote:
'PRICE' not prize!


ok thank you :)

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Rob 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 7-Apr-2019 1:47:27
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5854
From: S.Wales

@tlosm

I won't part with my prize for any price and you'll have to prise it from my cold dead hands.

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Argo 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 7-Apr-2019 6:04:02
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 310
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

@Petah

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=74030.msg843112#msg843112

https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=139358.0

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cdimauro 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 7-Apr-2019 6:21:15
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@Rob Quote:
Rob wrote:
@Trixie

Quote:
While that is perfectly true, the Tabor now has no chance to become anything but a stop-gap. The dropping of SPE support from the GCC codebase has thrown a major spanner in the works. In not-so-distant future it will only be possible to compile SPE-enabled software with an ancient version of the compiler. This will complicate the building of projects that rely on stuff from other platforms. So at some point it may become impossible to produce new, SPE-specific versions of the Radeon drivers, OGLES, SDL, NetSurf...

Like it or not, A-EON's goose is cooked as regards the Tabor. They will have to design another low-cost solution sooner or later.


It's not necessarily gone for good.

https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-12/msg00592.html

It would probably be A-EON interests to offer some kind of assistance so it can be added back into the next release.

Like it happened with Webkit? How long is that the Webkit-based browsers aren't updated? Is there any plan to update them with a recent Webkit version?

Similarly, GCC (and the GNU toolchain in general) is one of the most developed software which gets MOUNTAINS of changes/patches every year.

Is it reasonable that a small company like A-EON can financially support some (VERY SKILLED) developer to maintain a SPE branch for GCC (and the needed part of the toolchain)?

Trixie was right: it's better to redesign the Tabor board with a fully-compliant PowerPC processors. And, as Rose reported, there are some SoCs which are cheap.

It was a completely non-sense to chose such SoC. It's insane continuing with this project after so many years WITHOUT still selling it. And it's totally crazy doing it now with GCC which dropped the support to SPE.

Trevor, which isn't a technical guy, had bad counselor(s), OK. It can happen.

But now, if he has some good sense, it should stop this project and rethink/rebuild it.

Last edited by cdimauro on 07-Apr-2019 at 06:23 AM.

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number6 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 8-Apr-2019 19:41:04
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@thread

Trevor yesterday at 18:30 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eckRnq0-9Bs

Some Tabor history.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 9-Apr-2019 0:30:36
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@number6

Quote:
Some Tabor history.


I'm not sure that told us anything new to be honest. It's taken from late 2014 until now to fully test and write drivers for the board. During that time some ICs etc have had to be replaced and the SPE is no longer supported in the latest GCC versions.

The time to sell is now or no developers will EVER touch this again. It is hard to support now (with the future GCC revisions removing SPE support) and it will be impossible if it is delayed much longer (no opportunity to pay for continued SPE tool functionality through a third party if they don't hit the ground running)! Saying that, Trevor seems optimistic and hence so am I. To get this far without a release would severely hurt A-EON and AmigaKit. So release it already!!!

Last edited by BigD on 09-Apr-2019 at 12:33 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 9-Apr-2019 6:02:55
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@BigD: I don't think that there were already built, let's say, 1000 boards, and then you have to replace some ICs because they are out of market.

It's quite evident that the board DESIGN (and only that) was updated to make use of different ICs, but the mass production of the boards has NOT started yet.

Sure, there are some boards made for developers and testers, but they should be a very small parts.

Long story short: there's still time to change the design again, and this time putting a different SoC.

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bison 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 9-Apr-2019 15:20:32
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1532
From: N-Space

@cdimauro

Quote:
Long story short: there's still time to change the design again, and this time putting a different SoC.

Yeah, that would be best in the long run, but I don't think that's what's going to happen.

The deprecated SPE support in GCC is the last straw for me, but there are some people who want them and will buy them, so maybe they should build and sell a batch to help cover some of the design costs and move on to a better successor.

The name itself is kind of ominous: Tabor Island was never found...

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Rob 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 9-Apr-2019 18:44:21
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5854
From: S.Wales

@cdimauro

Quote:
t's quite evident that the board DESIGN (and only that) was updated to make use of different ICs, but the mass production of the boards has NOT started yet.


They were gearing up for production a few months ago now so production may well have started by now.

Quote:
Long story short: there's still time to change the design again, and this time putting a different SoC.


It would be a new design rather than a change to the existing one. I think if it was that simple they'd have switched to a low end T series long ago, like before the kernel work for e500mc was done.

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cdimauro 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 10-Apr-2019 5:51:39
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@Rob Quote:
Rob wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
t's quite evident that the board DESIGN (and only that) was updated to make use of different ICs, but the mass production of the boards has NOT started yet.

They were gearing up for production a few months ago now so production may well have started by now.

Didn't know that. It means that drivers and o.s. are in final, testing phase. Otherwise doesn't make sense to start production.
Quote:
Quote:
Long story short: there's still time to change the design again, and this time putting a different SoC.

It would be a new design rather than a change to the existing one. I think if it was that simple they'd have switched to a low end T series long ago, like before the kernel work for e500mc was done.

I don't see how it could be difficult throwing away the e500mc design, and pick a new one for another SoC. Reference boards exist for any SoC.

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BigD 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 10-Apr-2019 9:59:25
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@cdimauro

There would obviously be a significant delay if a new SoC was chosen. It is not clear whether Hyperion are in any position to continue AmigaOS development with no license to ExecSG. The Tabor is required to be sold to recoup development costs and some software has already been optimised for the SPE. The main issues with AmigaOS is the install base, lack of software and price of hardware. Tabor can help with two of these and a redesign would mean the boards would have to be significantly more expensive to cover costs meaning we'd be better off buying a X5000.

Like it or loathe it we stuck with the P1022 SoC for Tabor and in the big scheme of things it's no big deal IMHO.

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AmeegaGuy 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 10-Apr-2019 16:00:11
#59 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 81
From: Unknown

@BigD

"no license to ExecSG"

Why do you say this? I am aware that A-Eon now has ExecSG but I have seen nothing indicating Hyperion no longer also has license.

If both does this lead to chaos or cooperation?

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eliyahu 
Re: Where be Tabor?
Posted on 10-Apr-2019 16:58:05
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1812
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@AmeegaGuy

Quote:
I am aware that A-Eon now has ExecSG

not sure that A-EON is, in fact, the owner. maybe check with @TrevorDick?

-- eliyahu

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