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      /  Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
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kolla 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 2:12:20
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2125
From: Trondheim, Norway

@geen_naam

Quote:

geen_naam wrote:
If those developers signed a contract where it was agreed to be paid a x amount of money for the work the've done in service of Hyperion then they should sue Hyperion for breach of contract.


And gain what exactly? Money? There is no money to win, so why bother.

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geen_naam 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 17:26:19
#182 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@kolla

So you actually know how much money Hyperion has gained from os4 and os3.2 sales and what the value of their assets is?

Or could it be that those developers (were tricked to) sign a contract that would give them a very weak legal position and that there's no case?

Let me be clear. I'm not defending anyone and certainly not Hyperion. But if someone was earning money from my work without respecting a contract then I would sue them no matter what.



Last edited by geen_naam on 02-Jun-2021 at 05:26 PM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 20:14:28
#183 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 956
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

But if someone was earning money from my work without respecting a contract then I would sue them no matter what.

People did try that. And then some.

But we're talking about an amount in controversy of (typically) somewhere around 10k. Starting litigation for that in a different country is usually not worth the hassle.

And once you watched your first fellow developer spend quite some money on litigation against Hyperion without achieving anything, while Ben Hermans demonstrated with the lawsuit against AInc that he doesn't hold back when the going gets though - simply walking away is probably going to look a lot more appealing.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 22:19:05
#184 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@kolla

It does need to be money it can be other assets, like office equipment, the thing the developer worked on, or furniture, whatever really, ben’s old car.

it most like be auction to figure out the value, and sales of this assets will be divided by the creditors. But to do that, they need to figure out what Hyperion owns and not, and it can result in a legal action between the Belgian government and Cloanto.

Just because there is no money does mean that the debt disappears, you can sell debt to debt collection company.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 10:33 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 10:30 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 10:28 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 10:26 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 10:21 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 22:56:58
#185 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1502
From: Kansas

geen_naam Quote:

So you actually know how much money Hyperion has gained from os4 and os3.2 sales and what the value of their assets is?


Hyperion's financial statements were available and linked from a post on this site. It looked like they were losing money each year selling AmigaOS 4 only and AmigaOS 3.1.4 for the 68k turned things around for them. It appeared that they made several hundred thousand euros off AmigaOS 3.1.4 as I recall.

geen_naam Quote:

Or could it be that those developers (were tricked to) sign a contract that would give them a very weak legal position and that there's no case?


A crooked lawyer can take advantage of the average person's legal ignorance. Look at the 2009 Settlement Agreement signed by Amiga Inc. and businesses usually have better legal resources and knowledge than the general public.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 23:08:22
#186 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@matthey

But Hyperion has collected debt, from back when they where fighting Amiga Inc, in 2008, approximately 13 years with legal dispute.

Whatever nickels and dimes they made, they have not become rich.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 11:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 11:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jun-2021 at 11:09 PM.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 23:11:32
#187 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11428
From: In the village

@matthey

Quote:
Hyperion's financial statements were available and linked from a post on this site.


It's public information, so I'll just post them again, so no one has to hunt:

Hyperion Entertainment

Ben's entity

btw-last check on their grace period showed 6 months, so despite the talk about "2019", I would not discount the possibility that 2020 is soon due.

#6

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 7:49:31
#188 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2125
From: Trondheim, Norway

@geen_naam

Quote:

So you actually know how much money Hyperion has gained from os4 and os3.2 sales and what the value of their assets is?


Yes, “little” and “not enough”.

Quote:
Or could it be that those developers (were tricked to) sign a contract that would give them a very weak legal position and that there's no case?


Nooo… tricked you say? With eyes wide open? With being told repeatedly what they were signing up for? Never! Noone was tricked or duped here, that would be an insult to their intelligence.

“Ben Hermans tricked me!” “Oh really, so how can I trust your code?”

Quote:
Let me be clear. I'm not defending anyone and certainly not Hyperion. But if someone was earning money from my work without respecting a contract then I would sue them no matter what.


How deep is your wallet, how deep is your wallet, how deep is your wallet … I really want to know, 'cause we're living in a world of fools, breaking us down, when they all should let us be, it belongs to you and me…

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geen_naam 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 13:03:13
#189 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@cgutjahr

Quote:
simply walking away is probably going to look a lot more appealing.


Everybody can decide that for themselves. I'm not that kind of guy.

But I'm also not the kind of guy that signs something for the greater good.

So I will not sign anything unless I know how it will affect me. (i'm also the kind of guy that actually reads eula's ).

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geen_naam 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 13:06:48
#190 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@matthey

Quote:
Look at the 2009 Settlement Agreement signed by Amiga Inc. and businesses usually have better legal resources and knowledge than the general public.


LOL. Legal advise is not that expensive. What kind of company would not have it checked anyways? You cannot blame Hyperion for trying. You can only blame AmigaInc for accepting.

Rule no1. If you do not understand it, don't sign it.

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geen_naam 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 13:12:59
#191 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@kolla

Quote:
How deep is your wallet, how deep is your wallet, how deep is your wallet … I really want to know, 'cause we're living in a world of fools, breaking us down, when they all should let us be, it belongs to you and me…


LOL. Don't worry about my wallet. Being able to affort a X5K says it all, right?

(It's not a show off. Just a practical joke towards those who think that the X5K is ridiculously expensive)

Last edited by geen_naam on 03-Jun-2021 at 01:36 PM.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 14:11:38
#192 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11428
From: In the village

@TRIPOS

If you find the covid reference humorous, I'll just refer you to Belgian law:

Quote:
The Moratorium Decree is based on the model provided for in Articles XX.50 and XX.51 of the Belgian Code of Economic Law in the context of a judicial reorganization procedure (“JRP”) and must be read in conjunction with the provisions of Book XX of the Economic Law Code relating to corporate insolvency. Please find below the key takeaways from the Moratorium Decree.

Which businesses can benefit from the Moratorium Decree?
All businesses within the scope of Book XX of the Code of Economic Law will automatically benefit from the Moratorium Decree, following two cumulative conditions:

Their continuity is threatened by COVID-19 and its consequences; and
They were not already virtually bankrupt on March 18, 2020 (start of the Belgian lockdown).
Therefore, businesses whose continuity was severely compromised before COVID-19 cannot benefit from the Moratorium Decree, but can still apply for judicial reorganization proceedings (JRP).

The Moratorium Decree only protects the debtor itself and not related third parties (like spouses or guarantors).


#6

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Samwel 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 21:41:43
#193 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

Wouldn’t it be best for all if Cloanto/Amiga Inc (the new company)
simply bought Hyperion and put everything under the same roof?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 21:44:06
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@Samwel

No they don’t wont to do that, this all about owning trademarks.

Mike wonts to be the dictator of Amiga.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Jun-2021 at 09:46 PM.

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bennymee 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 22:03:28
#195 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 670
From: Netherlands

@geen_naam

And it keeps it's value :)

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amigadave 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 3-Jun-2021 23:25:04
#196 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Samwel

No they don’t wont to do that, this all about owning trademarks.

Mike wonts to be the dictator of Amiga.


I don't know what your problem is with Mike and Cloanto, or the new Amiga Inc. is, or why you tend to support Hyperion, but I'd like to see any evidence you have that Mike "wants to be the dictator of Amiga". As Samwel wrote, and I agree, why won't it be a good thing to have everything "Amiga", under one company again? How could it be any worse than what we have experienced over the last 10 to 15 years with Hyperion?

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Mobileconnect 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 7:30:29
#197 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 474
From: Unknown

@Samwel

Apparently Hyperion wants much more money for that anyone would realistically pay, so then the only choice is make a deal with them or beat them in court or hope they go bust.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 8:03:35
#198 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3499
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Mike wonts to be the dictator of Amiga.


you certainly don't know Mike. He's not that kind of person and his intentions are certainly not to act as the dictator of the situation. Quite the contrary, he has repeatedly lent his hand to others by inviting them to collaborate.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 10:26:12
#199 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6092
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Would you pay lots of dollars for something that is worth almost nothing or at least not much?

AmigaOS with how many users? One thousand? Two thousand?

If Ben H. would have been willing to sell all Trevor D. would have not financed the enhancer package and amigakit would not be trying to replace the OS

It is a little funny how simple the world for many is. In my view it is about money for all involved parties, not more not less

No side is sanctuary, not Cloanto and not Hyperion

BTW as someone wrote when I from time to time exchanged emails with Mike he always was a kind person. I do not know Ben H. in person so cannot say anything about him.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:29 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:27 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment - Reorg/Restructure
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 10:55:23
#200 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Quote:
If Ben H. would have been willing to sell all Trevor D.


Settlement agreement did not transferee ownership of AmigaOS3.1, only gave Hyperion the right to continue development, so anything that is bases on some % of original code, will have mixed bag, not fully paied for not fully owned, (Unless it can be proven that buyback agreement is valid, then its Hyperion who owns AmigaOS. until Amiga Inc pays for it.)

New things like Amiga Input, or USB stack, can maybe be sold, but again only if Hyperion has paid its contractor the agreed amount. If not, Hyperion will settle with their privilege creditors first (the developers), whoever owns what after that’s done, might give some clarity. But you can end up with half an OS to sell.

Trever might actually own some of that already, I remember there was page about what Hyperion owned and What Trever D (ExecSG Team) has domain over.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 11:06 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 11:02 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:59 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:58 AM.

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