@number6

Quote:

Have you considered the possibility that the "expected" content was missing?

No, I would have expected someone to have pointed it out before now if there was no statement from Trevor.

I can only assume it was a synopsis about sound drivers, reassurances regarding the uncertainty about using the AmigaOne brand name and a bold statement about it being worth the wait "when it's done"!

Last edited by BigD on 04-Oct-2019 at 09:22 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 04-Oct-2019 at 09:21 PM.

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@K-L

I am back to Aeon Beta testing duties.
Breathing and smiling broadly with good reason .


Quote:

K-L wrote: @BigD No. P5020 can barely cope with 720p (X1000 does even better thanks to AltiVec) so don't hold your breath.

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@Spectre660

Ok, so let's hold our breath

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@Spectre660

Welcome back Spectre.... been a while!

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@Spectre660

Indeed welcome back, Its been a poorer place around these parts without your valuable support.

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@Skateman & Outrun1978

Thanks Guys.
Good to be back.

Some extremely interesting stuff woke me out of my slumber .

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@Spectre660

I Wonder.......

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@SACC-dude

Nice to read your reply and I see you own an X5000, a beautiful and powerful system. I gather you have a booth @ AmiWest? I missed the October show, perhaps next year. Good luck.



Drawn.

Last edited by drawn on 22-Nov-2019 at 07:04 AM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

… relied (regarding hardware) on advices of others ...

I remember Apple had the same problem with their 68k system, the 68k processor was made to do everything - slowed it down.

Whereas the Commodore engineers knew the processors limits and added extra chips/DSPs etc to assist in hardware acceleration in all areas, these engineers cared.

I call it the Amiga spirit - the spirit to do the best & most efficient one can - professionals.

Last edited by asymetrix on 26-Nov-2019 at 05:13 AM.
Last edited by asymetrix on 26-Nov-2019 at 05:12 AM.

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@asymetrix

the problem is not that you have to rely on professionals but that you rely on professionals who have no clue of the product

Varisys obviously has designs ready and they sold that to Aeon, but Varisys obviously has no clue of amiga. The hardware works with linux but the hardware is not for linux but for amigaos. As I understand it at the start aeon asked hyperion if the hardware is ok but the responsible persons at hyperion did not look carefully on it because they were busy and answered "propably" or something like that. Aeon interpreted that as "yes" and let Varisys do the hardware. When the persons at hyperion looked at the hardware they saw the problems and asked for redesign (expecially regarding the wrong processor choice) Trevor said no. Also it seems there never was a communication between hyperion, aeon and varisys regarding driver development. Varisys did the hardware and hyperion has to do what they can to get something running on it. A suboptimal way to manage a project I would say.

@asymetrix

You would have a point if the Aniga had been designed around an old CPU or something broken by design (8086).

But no they choose a CPU that was super modern for the time and than added the chips as an extra bonus.

Something that became a problem when it moved byond a basic 68000.

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@OlafS25

Quote:

When the persons at hyperion looked at the hardware they saw the problems and asked for redesign (expecially regarding the wrong processor choice) Trevor said no.

What was wrong with the processor? It was a PowerPC?

It would seem to be a fine CPU of choice in the X1000 apart from the kernel acting somewhat unstable that other CPUs don't have problems with.

But wait, the Tabor and X5000? The Tabor yeah, I wouldn't have picked that CPU. Lacking AltiVec is one thing, but lacking an FPU with SPE in place? Nah, that should have been a deal breaker, it's a money pit.

Good intentions,, bad luck.

@Hypex

I wrote about Tabor and its CPU

@OlafS25

for my point of view:
tabor cpu was a bad choice ... something that was to much different compared the last 20y ppc amigaos cpu, and no so powerful to emulate the last gen aone fpu.
the x5000 isnt the best hw, the x1000 is the last best one. what amigans friend dont want to understand is .. the machine cores are too little for the today performances they start sweet hard just with browsing internet... and more the years are going more the brwowsing will be hard.

i have my quad g5 with debian 10 PPC64 installed .. the machine is very fast and rensponsive compared the past linux distros and compared macosx leopard too ... firefox now is multi threading and with egl acceleration enabled (wrong colors but work) result the internet browsing performances are much much bed compared a vorke mini pc with celeron j3455 cpu and intelhd.
some one will write it is normal x64 have jit have asm script ... i know, but not fan boys like we are will say that for they performances are important and not only have a boing ball on the os desk.

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@tlosm

The cpu was not the best one, but problaby requered a less layered board to be cheaper.

But the announcement of the Tabor was allready 4 years ago. And if even the sound and network driver are allready a showstopper, we should not even dream about anything with a better cpu afterall.

@tabor's cpu

IIRC, P1022 was more readily available than T1022, therefore it was selected.
(and, IIRC, P1022 has i2s for audio, while T1022 does not have that)

(There was a $200 design around P1022 at power.org at some point, but it never got into production.
That would have been a very interesting alternative/option for low end AOS4 device.)

The main disadvantage of P1022 was/is that it needs special attention to build SW for it, because of the incompatible FPU. (but that feels pretty "at home" because we've already used to cyberpatcher etc. already in 060 era, the advantage now is that OS is being develped so, no "patch" needed, even though SW optimization needed to get maximum out of the CPU)

Secondary disadvantage is that it prevents AOS evolution to 64bit ... but in real life we may not have R&D resources for 64bit anyways in near future.

IMhO: I find tabor/A1222 interesting because it is anyway a lot cheaper than x5000 and anyway a lot more powerfull than my current SAM440ep. (and A1222 can at least use more RAM & multicore, once SW support is built) P1022 and P50x0 are good enough untill PowerPC production ends (or some other affordable Power clone pop's up).

A little related, "minimum" availability of the chips:
P1020 launched 2008 available -> 2023
P5020 launched 2010 available -> 2020
P5040 launched 2012 available -> 2022
T208x launched 2012 available -> 2027

-> around 2024, the production should be using T series and perhaps Power for high-end
-> current roadmaps indicate that ISA change need to appear around 2028 unless Open Power start to deliver affordable continuation

Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Nov-2019 at 11:37 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Nov-2019 at 11:37 AM.

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@geen_naam

End of life means nothing here really, sure its can be issue with warranty if can’t get the CPU replaced if it breaks, but I’m sure there be stocks of CPU's some where in some place, new old stock stuff, stuff just waiting to get used.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jan-2020 at 08:43 PM.

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@KimmoK

Quote:

The main disadvantage of P1022 was/is that it needs special attention to build SW for it, because of the incompatible FPU. (but that feels pretty "at home" because we've already used to cyberpatcher etc.

Back in the 68000 Era the CPU did not have a FPU.

Floating Point Operations where done via built in libraries, developers could always relay on this libraries in AOS3. If an FPU was present in the system this libraries used them, so even software without FPU optimisation got the benefits of a FPU.

On AOS4 they started with a PPC that had a built in FPU and they never made developers using some libraries, now they introduced a PPC without compatible FPU and they are running into troubles.

That's when weak OS design meats weak hardware design.

@geen_naam

Hello and welcome back!

"CPU is EOL", no worries the CPU is soldered on the motherboard, aint going nowhere ;)

I have owned a X5000 since december 2016 and use it as my daily computer and
Im very happy with it, if I miss some app or something doesn't work I use a macbook
but that isn't happening much.


If you have the cash go for it, your'e not gonna regret it!
Or dip your toes into the Tabor/A1222 and try it out,
you can always sell it here or on Amibay and upgrade later.

No multicore support as of yet, but work is happening in the shadows. ;)
Can't find the video now but search youtube - "Amiwest 2019 Steven Solie"

Acill made a nice X5000 review the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvmYhBe23II

Last edited by khayoz on 05-Jan-2020 at 01:26 AM.

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@OneTimer1

Quote:

present in the system this libraries used them, so even software without FPU optimisation got the benefits of a FPU.

You jump into library call routine that calculated your values.

So it did a "JSR" to a list to do a "JMP", and do lots of other instructions then final do a "RTS" to get back, they did not do it because it was great idea, they did it cut costs.

And you wont have any FPU registers so need stored some where else I guess. So not wherry efficient.

So I looked up cyberpatcher, and as I understand it can’t
http://www.amigareport.com/ar413/review6.html
http://ada.untergrund.net/?p=boardthread&id=510

is patch to optimize the system on cyberstrom accelerators, replaces routines etc…
blitter run slow, the 68060 is faster do some gfx stuff and so on.

People complained about the Cyrix not being able to execute FPU instruction in parallel with CPU instructions, some say Quake killed the Cyrix, because ID software was doing interesting tricks to speed up calculations. But there CPU’s under preformed.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jan-2020 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Jan-2020 at 01:48 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Jan-2020 at 01:46 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Jan-2020 at 01:44 AM.

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