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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:40:51
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@vision

Quote:

What I was criticising was that idea of a new "Open AmigaOS". Really? don't you see how deeply is ignoring the aros project with that, being practically the same concept and asking to start it all over again from scratch? how absurd it is because even we could use some sources that we already have, are already kind of unusable and too old, and would be in constant danger because of the legal implications? do I need to specifically state this?


Sorry, but I can't exactly understand what this "new open amiga os" should be at all. I don't believe Cloanto/Hyperion (or whoever own anything) will expose themselves to the risk of opening the sources of software whose ownership is being disputed in the courts.

Quote:
Some Amiga users (tiny portion, in fact, there are no more than maybe 50 active users around here) never accepted Aros just because of their purist conception of what's an Amiga, and now they only kind of accept to briefly open their arms just because of the daring situation of the "official" platform. Well, instead of trying to satisfy some dozens from "the last bastion", we should be asking ourselves why the once reference portal for Amiga fans, it is now a TINY community largely surpassed by other communities from initially smaller ones, like Atari, C64, Spectrum, Amstrad, MSX, etc... with stronger, thousand of times friendlier, and more interesting and ambitious projects both in hardware and software.

Since long time ago I feel we take too much attention to the ones remaining, instead of the ones that already left. Some people should ask themselves, why did they leave? just life? it is just because they are tired of the Amiga? don't like it anymore? or were they just tired of stupid fighting, purist statements, legal threats, and general behaviour of just a tiny (but loudest) portion of the community, so they switched to create their own communities, fb groups, new platforms, etc...? Well, answers are expressed in private and elsewhere, but if some were aware of them around here, they would drop some jaws off.


You're not too distant from my point of view, here.

To simply put it: because this community never accepted the death of its platform. More precisely, it never FELT the Amiga as a dead platform, and prefers to consider the tiny market of AmigaOS 4.x, MorphOS and AROS all-toghether as "alive and kicking", accepting as sign of life every little step one of these systems do. Reality is different. Reality in the IT world is something that moves millions of dollars with hundreds of thousands of items sold every year. How much is this "Amiga market" worth, overall? 20,000 dollars/year? 100,000? It's not a market, it's a hobby. Add this to the fact that only the largest companies still operating in this market are gaining something. Casual developers just port their software, or write it, for the glory.

What you saw into the other communities is just the next step. Within the Amiga world, you can see something similar only in the vituperated "OS3 camp", the ones choosing EAB instead of this forum. They accept the machine for what it was, they write software for it and stop dot. No stupid flames about whose dick is longer, no silly rants about what operating system is lesser worse, no pathetic questions about why MorphOS does not work on the X5000 with this or that video card, after MorphOS has been shown booting on a waaaaaaaaaaaay faster and cheaper platform (sorry, could not resist). This community is doomed, if it insists with this childish behavior.

That's why I always ask to stop the flames. They're not even ridiculous anymore, they're just pathetic.

Quote:
So, in you oppinion, what needs to be corrected here is that I need to be more "polite", not disagree, not defend Aros against lies and the hard work you and others are doing, while on the other side this is an open space for insults, discredits and lies? sure this is the best?


You "defended AROS" in a very harsh way.

Last edited by paolone on 14-Oct-2019 at 12:43 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:42:08
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

that is your view...

as I wrote... you never supported the 68k branch

Funny thing how people suddenly predict the future

I do not see anyone open sourcing AmigaOS

and even then... Aros is much more than 3.1. You should know...

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 12:50:59
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

I guess everyone here has the right to support whatever branch of AROS they like, or need. Pahoenixconsole might have underextimated the value of 68K AROS, just because projects like the Vampire cards and standalone platform weren't a reality yet. Personally, you know, I've always considered the 68K branch as a commodity for legacy applications, but this does not make me a monster.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 13:24:16
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@paolone

What wording do you all here use?

I have called noone "monster"

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 13:38:48
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@OlafS25
? well i did Aminux as a test balloon and interest was close to 0 rendering it meh..

Be honest and compare AROS on vampire to AmigaOS 3.x on vampire.. I think AROS 68k has still a very long way to go. Whatever.. this doesn't mean i discredit AROS 68k.. it is based on an OS (especially Wanderer) not targeted at classics in first glance. It need more polishing.. end.

Will it be polished .. likely..

Whatever I talked to at least one party about open sourcing and it didn't sound as "impossible" as some believe here.

So .. before we talk much and create hot air, let us go back on our "branches" and keep going.
My opinion is my opinion. Yours is yours...
I see it practical ... is there a use for 68K ? Yes for running 68K apps and games legaly. Is it a 100% replacement of OS3.x no not yet.
End of the song.. -- to be continued

-------
branch wars inside AROS ... lol - I need a drink .. peace is just one ./configure && make away

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 01:40 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 01:39 PM.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

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bison 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 14:18:52
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1459
From: N-Space

@paolone

Quote:
I don't believe Cloanto/Hyperion (or whoever own anything) will expose themselves to the risk of opening the sources of software whose ownership is being disputed in the courts.

You're right, nothing is going to happen until after things are settled in court. Michael Battilana has expressed some interest in releasing source code if the outcome is in their favor. If Hyperion wins, I don't think we'll ever see the code.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 14:35:03
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Yeah, sorry. Don't get upset. You never called anyone a monster, I was just enphasizing the concept.

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 15:05:35
#68 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

I never heard open Source Amiga OS classic either.
Even if they did it is a lot of assembler. It is not nice, easy portable like AROS.
Who will put their fingers on that for free. My guess is none.

AROS 68k also have lot's of modern features not seen in any original Amiga 68k Version + everything is free. No need to register USB stack, network stack etc.

I'm do agree there are still many things to look at regarding being as compatible as possible to classic.

Even classic Amiga OS versions and hardware have compatible problems.

I tought we would see some beta Version of AROS for Pi, but nothing yet. 1 person working on it and a loooong way to go. Sorry, but I don't see it happen.

I don't get the point of NG Amiga system anymore either. It does not bring anything not seen on other OS that only does it better and are secure, have memory protection etc. etc.

I'm pretty sure the only way to succeed as always been the classic line. Accellerators and other hardware like Vampire you are compatible with 68k that brings hell of a lot of original games, scene prods. and other software + possible future apps. emulators. Not saying Vampire will be very successfull either. It probably will not. Most like the real thing.



Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 03:13 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 03:12 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 03:09 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 03:08 PM.

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jPV 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 16:14:00
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 679
From: .fi

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:

I don't get the point of NG Amiga system anymore either. It does not bring anything not seen on other OS that only does it better and are secure, have memory protection etc. etc.

I've always loved to use AmigaOS, its structure, ARexx etc. And I still want to use Amiga programs I've used to use. Other OS isn't the same, you can't use the same programs on them, you can't use them in the same way, they just don't replace Amiga-experience for me. For me the "NG Amigas" are god sent and I still can continue using computers in the style I want. I'm so happy that I can use Amiga style operating system (MorphOS) still today. Can't do that with 68k systems anymore, but luckily we have these modernized versions! For me classic Amigas are just for gaming and demos nowadays, and I couldn't use them as my primary daily machines anymore, but NG systems I can.

_________________
- The wiki based MorphOS Library - Your starting point for MorphOS
- Software made by jPV^RNO

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 17:12:46
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

it looks here like dark november mood ;)

what shall we do...? Do nothing, drop the project and walk away?

Good idea... would save time ;)

If you talk about any amiga platform to compete against mainstream platforms

of course not

but there is at least a chance to have a living market, of course still niche but much bigger than now. That would be a lot already

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 17:19:21
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
I never heard open Source Amiga OS classic either.


Have a look at this thread then:

Post #1 is about opinions of Olaf Barthel, the maintainer and developer of Amiga OS “Classic”.
Post #2 is the words of the owner of the Amiga IP, Cloanto.

https://amigaworld.net//modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42002&forum=2&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

But as I said in a post here above, it seems like the legal battles will be solved through a settlement with Ben Hermans/Hyperion? Which might destroy any hopes in this direction? But OTOH maybe the settlement will be about Ben Hermans receiving a bag of money in order to simply p!ss off?

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 17:37:35
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@TRIPOS

Ok, I understand.
Personaly I don't like to use other than original OS 3.1 with some add ons, but I only use it for Games and Demos and sometimes play tracker music.

Maybe when I get Vampire I would like something more modern so I can download demos and stuff from www.pouet.net

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 17:41:11
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

Haha :)

Most droped the AROS project many years ago. It is nothing happening anymore. Some stuff from Kalamatee and Mschulz. It is just no interest. I look at it as almost dead. AROS 68k is the only one to survive as Vamp. team supports it and it could be good for emulation and future 68k systems. There it is no need for multi thread, multi core, memory protection.

My mood is quite good. I found back to classic Amiga. I'm more happy than even. 020, Internal scan doubler with VGA out, 21" CRT monitor, PCMCIA SD card adapter to trasfer files. SD card for internal HDD. Gotek for adf floppy files for all my Amigas. Playstation adapter to use playstation controllers,
sendt my A1200 for recap. Very nice job done with that. New power supply. 8MB Fast ram :D
I even got 2 Amiga 500 with original commodore Amiga 14" CRT montior. I love them to :D

Next up is Vampire stand alone to play with some 060 demos and some games.

Don't like to put any accellerators on my Amigas. I like them original. Just some extra memory.

There are so much going on for Classic Amigas. Many new great games in development only for Amiga. Also many great scene productions. Only for classic. Games released recently like Worty, Resoot R and now Rygar are just so amazing and of such quality that I could not belive it!

What new original games are developed for NG systems? If there are any they are crap. Ports from PC? Not interesting. Are there any scene productions? Hope. None!!

Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:57 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:54 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:53 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:48 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:45 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:44 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 05:42 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 18:00:12
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@jPV

I agree. I also like how AmigaOS works. It is just no NG Amiga system that can fill my needs. I also can not stand a system going down. I can not live with that anymore.

We live in 2019 where Windows, Linux, MacOS, Android. All are rock stable and move on into the future with a huge teams behind them.

I also use classic Amiga for games and scene productions. That is what it is great for. My A1200 never crashed playing a game!

Last edited by nikosidis on 14-Oct-2019 at 06:04 PM.

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Trixie 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 18:03:02
#75 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1847
From: Czech Republic

@TRIPOS

Quote:
maybe the settlement will be about Ben Hermans receiving a bag of money in order to simply p!ss off?

I doubt that, as he already has been offered a bag of money to clear off.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 18:28:10
#76 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@TRIPOS

Ok, I understand.
Personaly I don't like to use other than original OS 3.1


What’s being discussed is the original!

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 18:29:52
#77 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Didn’t know that. Is a source of that info available online?

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 18:35:47
#78 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@TRIPOS

I know :)
I'm just saying that it is realy no point for me to use updates to original OS 3.1 as every game or scene production works on that one.

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Trixie 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 19:08:20
#79 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1847
From: Czech Republic

@TRIPOS

No, I don't think so. Not all things get published online.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 14-Oct-2019 19:23:03
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@Vision..
I am not sure which lies you are talking about and what make you believing you must defend AROS against me.. That there was talk about the possibility of making it (AOS 3.x) open source ? Nope it isn't a lie.. it was discussed with some people... and honestly the "pay someone idea" isn't far off...

I offer 5K € per month to Ben Hermans as long he lives (don't worry i will not try to shorten it) if we find an agreement with Cloanto to make it open source...

@Olaf
what conversations are you talking about in which i spoke bad or even slightly against AROS 68K in the past? (I only say it is still far from being as polished and feeling "lightweight" as OS3 on classics - prove me a lier)
I even provided Broadway 68k even if not mentioned in the public very often as AROS vision was the place to go.

There is no kind of AROS I dislike .. there is AROS.. that's it. I like AROS. But also MOS and even AmigaOS 4.x oh my god .. i must be an asshole. Maybe i am even the anticrist and causing a blackhole because i like to play with all incarnations of AMIGA..

ts ts ts ts.. very annoying that saying something leads to personal bashing and than playing the poor victim as I use harsh words expressing and underling my anger .. hmm... Always the same... It's like some people fear they loose their small bubble of truth they are living in. My god... It's a hobby..

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Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 07:29 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 07:28 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 14-Oct-2019 at 07:27 PM.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

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