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      /  Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 29-Nov-2019 13:21:13
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@agami

opinions are opinions and not crap

your opinion is no crap either I assume

be politeful please

Nikosidis expressed his view and how he likes amiga

And yes nobody knows for sure what might have happened but it is sensible to say that the age of custom chips propably soon has ended simply because of it would have been impossible to compete on price and features with platforms that are produced and sold in millions. So very propably (if Commodore and Amiga had survived) it would have gone the Apple route with custom hardware based on standard components using INTEL processor or similar. If there would have been a comparable community enjoying and developing for the 68k platform is impossible to even guess. I think too that perhaps some would have fond memories but that the 68k community would be much smaller.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 29-Nov-2019 13:21:18
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@AP

I know. That was not the reason for the answer.
It was cause some still want the whole retro experience with things like floppy disks, but I'm not there at all.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 29-Nov-2019 13:24:47
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

for some everything not at least 20 years old is modern crap so to say and they do not want it

because of that they are not interested in vampire

for demo coders it is most interesting to get most from a certain defined hardware. Because of that they will never develop for vampire

everybody to its own

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 29-Nov-2019 13:46:57
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

That is 100% correct.
Banging the hardware of Legacy computers are popular and what is intresting.

There are almost 0 NG Amiga scene Productions.

Last edited by nikosidis on 29-Nov-2019 at 01:48 PM.

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AP 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 29-Nov-2019 14:27:28
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@nikosidis: "That was not the reason for the answer.
It was cause some still want the whole retro experience with things like floppy disks, but I'm not there at all."

I see. Me neither (especially because I grew up with this suff).

Last edited by AP on 29-Nov-2019 at 02:28 PM.

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bison 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 29-Nov-2019 14:58:37
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@nikosidis

If Amiga had been more successful and evolved into a "modern" system, i.e. a mass of complexity, then what would we be nostalgic about today instead of Amiga?

Amiga nostalgia basically comes down to, "We were there at the dawn of personal computing, but it went in the wrong direction and now we need to restore what has been lost."

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Hypex 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 30-Nov-2019 13:27:19
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9637
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
because of that they are not interested in vampire


Isn't the speed of the Vampire as slow or slower than a 20 year old computer?

If these people don't have any other computer newer than 20 years fair enough.

But if they do have recent PC then I think it's ridiculous to argue the Amiga can't have anything better than 20 years ago, since they would be using better.

I have discovered there is a new hardcore breed of Amigan coming out. They don't like the AmigaOne for obvious reasons. But they also don't like the Vampire. And for some they don't accept anything post Commodore or non-Commodore. A big box Amiga should be okay if you have an 040 card but if you have an A1200 I'm not aware of any Commodore accelerators so good luck. But at this point they don't accept AGA as being Amiga either. It's A500 or bust, ECS is the best and no arguments please. That's common. But if people never saw any Amiga after their A500, they need to catch up to the past, presently.

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bison 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 30-Nov-2019 16:27:49
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@Hypex

Quote:
I have discovered there is a new hardcore breed of Amigan coming out. They don't like the AmigaOne for obvious reasons. But they also don't like the Vampire. And for some they don't accept anything post Commodore or non-Commodore. A big box Amiga should be okay if you have an 040 card but if you have an A1200 I'm not aware of any Commodore accelerators so good luck. But at this point they don't accept AGA as being Amiga either. It's A500 or bust, ECS is the best and no arguments please. That's common. But if people never saw any Amiga after their A500, they need to catch up to the past, presently.

I'm emulating an A500 on Linux, so I'm caught up to both the past and the present.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 1-Dec-2019 15:45:39
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

Vampire is the first 68k hardware since the Commodore days. 20 years old tech. speed, has little to do with it. It is the fastest classic Amiga hardware ever made.
There is demand for new classic hardware. If someone could start producing
A500 again it would sell well for the right price.

Last edited by nikosidis on 01-Dec-2019 at 03:46 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 1-Dec-2019 15:52:14
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

+1

it is a hobby, perhaps like someone buying and repairing old cars

it makes more sense to buy a new car with modern electronic

but that is not why people do it

amiga 500 or 1200 is oldtimer, vampire ist still car but with a little faster engine

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 1-Dec-2019 17:36:29
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

What is little cool with Vampire is the SAGA and Paulina add better gfx and sound possibilities. If there will be software, games to make use of it we don't know, but hopefully.

I know the Vampire project don't have a fat account but they should try to support some game development team to take advantage of the hardware.

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bison 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 14:46:10
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@nikosidis

Quote:
If someone could start producing A500 again it would sell well for the right price.

This is minimig, more or less. Or do you mean the entire system in a wedge-style case?

@OlafS25

Restoring old cars: I think that's a good analogy!

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 14:57:19
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@bison

the vampire are a kind of "what could have been" but still retro of course (performance of late 90s)

I do not have a problem there... if you have a healthy retro community that is growing a lot of is won. Important is to get new exclusive software for it, expecially games.

of course using a Mac or PC with Windows/Linux makes more sense

I today bought a digital copy of "Black dawn rebirth"... it looks very good (but of course it cannot compare to modern games on XBOX or similar but the old style has its own attraction)

Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Dec-2019 at 03:00 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Dec-2019 at 02:59 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 15:01:20
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@bison

Miming I'm sure is good but I'm talking about the real thing.

Sure not possible with the 68k cpus and custom chips, but anyway.

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paolone 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 16:07:21
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Quote:
There is demand for new classic hardware. If someone could start producing
A500 again it would sell well for the right price.


No.

There is no demand for new classic hardware.

There is, indeed, a little community of amigans and old amigans interested in buyng back a machine that gave emtions to their younger themselves. Then, there are collectors, who aren't satisfied yet by possessing all old models and who want more. Both together won't make a significant market as it might be, for instance, the one of Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum. This brings us to the second consideration:

Nobody will start producing the A500 again

And this for the very simple reason there's no way to restart productions of original components. The best you might have is a FPGA replica which basically would be a minimig into an A500-shaped case and keyboard, which of course...

No, it would not sell for the 'right' price

for two good reasons: the 'right' price is generally underextimated by common people. Ask anyone, and they will tell you they would buy a 'new A500' complete with keyboard and case for less than $89, which obviously is the price they would get it after 1 year of unsold products at $299 (which would probabily be the 'right' price, according to production and distribution costs). The second motivation is of course implicit: far hig production cost.

Last edited by paolone on 02-Dec-2019 at 04:08 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 16:35:24
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@paolone

there is demand for classic hardware

otherwise there would not be that much activity there (and new software)

of course it is a niche

but as I wrote... a healthy niche is more than what we have right now

Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Dec-2019 at 04:36 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 16:36:31
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@paolone

Strange you did not notice they sell new versions of Ninteno, Commodore 64, Super Nintendo, PS1 etc. Even a friend of mine bought the C-64 reproduction.
It is for sure not original hardware. A500 emulated in a case with HDMI boundled with some classic games like Cannon Fodder, Pinball Dreams, SWOS etc. would for sure sell for the right price.

There is high demand for the real thing. Commodore 64 and all Amiga models are sought after. A4000 can go for thousands of $

Last edited by nikosidis on 02-Dec-2019 at 04:39 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 02-Dec-2019 at 04:39 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 16:41:18
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

it is difficult for some to accept that the future is the past

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Kronos 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 18:20:08
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2199
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Yeah, sure but those are cheap and more importantly Plug&Play.

None of them would sell if they didn't come with a bunch of preinstalled games or weren't working hassle free with modern TV sets.


So no, reproducing a bunch of bulky A500s that only come with a WB1.3 floppy and AmigaBasic won't do.


Something like a 50 Minimig/FPGArcarde with lots of preinstalled (licensed) games might do the trick, but fat chance of making that happen without some party throwing legal rocks into your way.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 18:49:19
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@Kronos

it is not impossible

you would have to use aros roms

and of course you need to get the rights to preinstall the games

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