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      /  Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
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Kronos 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 19:34:21
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2199
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

*shrug*

You fail to understand that "legal rocks" are not optional.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 19:36:40
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@Kronos

I indeed do not understand

where is the problem if you not use kickstart roms?

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 2-Dec-2019 20:38:23
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

Some of the problem with this is the name.

To sell something like this it got to be like other reproductions or retro systems.

I have a feeling that soon the Amiga name will be possible to use on many different products.
It is just a matter of license.
I even hear this speach by Henie or what he is called from Hyperion taped from Amiga34.
He mention AROS, MorphOS several times.
Something is going on in that direction.

Sure the A500 reproduction need HDMI and smaller case. I think it will happen.

Last edited by nikosidis on 02-Dec-2019 at 08:41 PM.

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bison 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 3-Dec-2019 4:09:58
#44 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1457
From: N-Space

@nikosidis

Quote:
Sure not possible with the 68k cpus and custom chips, but anyway.

It's technically possible, of course, but probably not financially feasible. One would have to sell millions of them to reduce the development costs to reasonable levels.

Now, if someone could be persuaded to add an A500 to an otherwise unrelated SoC, that might work. An A500 would not use much space on the die, but I don't know under what circumstances anyone would be persuaded to do that, unless Eben Upton starts making his own SoCs.

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paolone 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 3-Dec-2019 8:22:02
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@paolone

Strange you did not notice they sell new versions of Ninteno, Commodore 64, Super Nintendo, PS1 etc. Even a friend of mine bought the C-64 reproduction.


This is definitely NOT classic hardware. I have got a TheC64 Mini too.

Quote:

It is for sure not original hardware. A500 emulated in a case with HDMI boundled with some classic games like Cannon Fodder, Pinball Dreams, SWOS etc. would for sure sell for the right price.


Obviosuly, as like as the C64 Mini did (but less). Unluckily, this wouldn't be classic hardware the way I read here ("the real thing").

Quote:

There is high demand for the real thing. Commodore 64 and all Amiga models are sought after. A4000 can go for thousands of $


This is classic hardware instead, and prices go crazy because it's the nostalgia momentum. By the way, my son was dubious wether to sell his Nintendo Wii-U, or store it in a Box for the years to come, and I frankly told him he would gain near-to-nothing from his console by selling it in the next 20 years but, afterwards, a well kept, still working unit might become precious.

Last edited by paolone on 03-Dec-2019 at 08:23 AM.

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paolone 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 3-Dec-2019 8:35:33
#46 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

Quote:
I have a feeling that soon the Amiga name will be possible to use on many different products.
It is just a matter of license.


Considering that the 'Amiga' name and brand are owned by C-A Acquisition Corporation, leaded by the same Michele Battilana whose Cloanto company owns the rights for the ROM files, who is already collaborating with Koch Media and Retro Games Ltd for two products (TheC64 Mini and TheC64), I guess production and distribution of an A500Mini would be just matter of:

1. getting proper licenses for a good amount of quality games
2. waiting for those neverending legal disputes with Hyperion to come to an end
3. actually producing it

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Trixie 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 3-Dec-2019 8:57:10
#47 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1846
From: Czech Republic

@nikosidis

Quote:
I have a feeling that soon the Amiga name will be possible to use on many different products. It is just a matter of license.

That would be my guess also. It would be naive to think that Batillana has gone to such great lengths simply because he wants to "save the Amiga". IMHO his plan is to collect all sorts of Amiga IP and then live off licensing.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 3-Dec-2019 11:01:53
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@Trixie

if Hyperion would get the brand name they would do the same or worse keep it exclusive for the PPC line. I have no problem with licensing as long as the requested money is sensible. In best case brand would be controlled and licensed from a independent group. We will see what happens when the legal issue is solved.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 3-Dec-2019 13:29:27
#49 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

No matter what I only now see someone take license for classic line or something completly new like Android cell phone as someone already did with the Commodore name. Game console is option nr. 2, Amiga Shield, Powered by Nvidia.
It is simply no room or need for another competitor to modern operative systems.

Last edited by nikosidis on 03-Dec-2019 at 01:32 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 03-Dec-2019 at 01:31 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 03-Dec-2019 at 01:30 PM.

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agami 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 6:49:25
#50 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 550
From: Melbourne, Australia

@nikosidis
Quote:
It is simply no room or need for another competitor to modern operative systems

I agree that the world has no room or need for more of the same operating systems.

What I don't agree with is referring to any of today's widely used operating systems as "modern".
So then the proposition becomes: There is room, and a need, for a true modern 21C operating system for 21C computing.
Of course none of the 100+ of today's operating systems could fill this role, but there are some good ideas in a few of them that should be adopted in whatever is nezt.

Last edited by agami on 04-Dec-2019 at 07:04 AM.
Last edited by agami on 04-Dec-2019 at 06:59 AM.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 9:24:41
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@agami

Yes, agreed. I ment modern in everything AmigaOS lacks compared to other OS like Windows. Memory protection is one of them.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 12:05:45
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

modern features like true SMP, full memory protection and 64bit are just minimum requirements that are supported already by the other platforms but give no advantage

You would also need a complete different desktop, support of all kinds of components, drivers f.e. for USB printers and so on

And you would need new concepts how to use different media and so on that makes it easier to use such a platform compared to what is already there, including different clouds, services like spotify and so on otherwise people will not use it when they cannot access the services and clouds they already use. The problem is interfaces to that services often are closed and the chance to become officially supported is Zero.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 12:11:42
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

I know. That is why I said "one of them"

It is million of things ;) Almost impossible task and no company with their right mind would invest in it. It is simply no demand for another alternative.


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 12:30:51
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@agami

go with it

Unfortunately you would need until 23C to complete it... if ever

and there would be nothing amigan left very propably

Last edited by OlafS25 on 04-Dec-2019 at 12:32 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 13:40:42
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1855
From: Australia

Not sure you can use the mini consoles as any indication of success.
The Amiga's audience, even at it's peak, is absolutely dwarfed into insignificance compared to the nes, snes, megadrive, psx, and even C64.
Despite this TheC64 barely drew even and the psx classic failed miserably until it was reduced to pocket change.
So unless a system can be sold for $50-ish, ready to go including software an "Amiga mini" would be commercial suicide. It'd point blank fail, no ifs ands or buts.

I do agree however that it's nice to have an old hobby left untainted. Given the audience of this site however I really don't think it matters. Had the Amiga been taken more seriously and stripped of the fun it provides we'd find something else. There's activity left, right and center in the retro world. The Amiga scene is one of the smallest that could still be considered active.

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 14:15:02
#56 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@fishy

The Commodore 64 and Amiga scene is the most active of all retro systems.

The amount of People that would buy Amiga 500 clone with some of the best titles released for it is for sure worth targeting. It will be good business.

That is why I say it must have the Amiga name and the right price.

Don't think about People going to Amigaworld. 99% of the People that will buy it does not even know Amiga still exist. They had it or tried it in their childhood and for let's say 100 Euro will like to have it again to play classic games like Pinball Dreams. This is almost the same price as a new game release for PS4.
I'm pretty sure it will be done.

Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 02:18 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 02:17 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 02:16 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 14:50:48
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5609
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

if you take Putty Squad (as a example) gameplay and graphics still look good

If you carefully select that would be something that could sell (if marketed right and at a good =cheap price)

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 14:57:07
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

Sure, it is a lot of titles. Even new games they could boundle with a demo like Worthy.
There can even be a network connection on this hardware to buy and download games, new and old.

Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 02:58 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 02:58 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 15:21:37
#59 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1855
From: Australia

@nikosidis

Even the PSX Classic failed miserably, at half that price and it had 20x the userbase of the Amiga and is from a brand that is synonymous with gaming and "cool" to younger people.

Also, look into the broader retro community.... you'll see theres much more activity elsewhere than the Amiga,... heck even the Tandy CoCo gets as much attention let alone systems like the Amstrad CPC, speccy, etc.

As for games like Pinball Dreams,.... they exist for other old machines too, like the Nintendo DS. Theres little enticing about the Amiga to people who don't have nostalgia about it. Most games aged very badly on the Amiga. Half of it's library is unplayable.

I get it, I really do. A couple of new releases and delving back into something you used to enjoy and it all seems fresh, exciting and even like there's hope.
As someone who never left the 68k scene and also delves deeply into many other scenes it all seems so run-o-the-mill/just-another-day.
Fun, sure, but absolutely nothing has changed.

Having a wider/broader perspective helps with clarity.
Doesn't mean I can't enjoy things, but it does give some perspective.
A cheap, decent "mini amiga" simply will not happen.
A half assed, over priced effort that half of the people in the community could make themselves, only better and more cheaply,...... Im sure we'll see plenty of those :)

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore bankruptcy maybe not been a bad thing.
Posted on 4-Dec-2019 16:03:52
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 931
From: Norway, Oslo

@fishy_fis

PSX classic games you can play on at least PS2 and PS3.
I agree with you that Pinball Dreams are released for many platforms but it was just an example. It is not that everyone have noticed that either.
Remember Amiga users back in the day are from 40 and up.

Great games are still great. I play a lot of Amiga classics with much joy.
A great game like Pac Man or Tetris just don't die that simple cause the gfx is outdated. The same can be said about SuperFrog, Alladin, SWOS, diffrent Pinball series. Super Stardust, Necronom, Worms, ATR, Simon the sourcerer. Just to name a few.

We can agree to disagree about what we think a relaunch ;)

New OCS game in Development :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F56SGeFfiA&feature=youtu.be


Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 04:10 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 04:10 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 04:06 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 04-Dec-2019 at 04:04 PM.

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