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      /  What future for the Amiga platform?
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agami 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 0:35:50
#181 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Raffaele

Quote:
There is lack of money and developers? Money are few cause there are too few Amiga users?

Then stop whining and start doing something concrete and useful.

Start an agreement with a good Computer School in India or Vietnam by collecting money for them with online funding campaign.

Terms of agreement will be: We will send you money on a regular basis and your pupils should produce good software for Amiga platform i.e. enhancing Open Source AROSx86 to become fully 64bit complaint resuming old existing code, debugging it, writing new solutions, make it POSIX compliant with Memory Protection support and so on... Let's the "kids" (young men) learn how to code Amiga and release Libre Office, updated OpenGL libraries, hardware drivers, realize Firefox porting for AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS, encode modern graphics programs and other kind of software not restricted to 128MB memory limit and enhance good old Amiga Software like Bars'n'Pipes.

If you want results then invest in a good enterprise the pocket money you have in a cheap but profitable and practical project involving whole community.

You clearly have very little understanding of how education works, and especially how it works in developing countries like India and Vietnam.

We at Crystal Delta actually work with education institutions in India. Among other things, we even opened a technology incubator on campus at Sree Sowdambika College of Engineering in Aruppukottai a year ago, and in November last year we were invited to do the same at RIT (Ramco Institute of Technology) in Rajapayam. The purpose of which is to provide the students opportunities for hands-on coding skills that are used in the real world, as the curriculum is predominantly theory.

Indian colleges measure themselves on placement, i.e. How many students get placed in employment in their 4th year of studies. All the big names: IBM, Oracle, InfoSys, Wipro, Cognizant go on major recruitment drives to snag the best talent. What they are looking for is Java, Python, React, Node.js, Swift, Objective-C, and HTML5/CSS3 skills. Students that don't show aptitude for these kinds of skills are not selected. Enough students don't get selected, and enrollments drop off. Enrollments drop off and the college is out of business.

To influence the curriculum of an entire college to take on Amiga focused development as part of their curriculum would cost many millions of dollars, because you would need to provide all the resources, train all the teaching staff, and essentially taking on the responsibility of hiring most of those students for at least two years. That's a lot more than just "pocket money". It would take a lot less money, and time, to just hire developers to enhance MorphOS or AROS to a more modern level, and to port the staple open source software we lack.

Last edited by agami on 21-Jan-2020 at 12:44 AM.
Last edited by agami on 21-Jan-2020 at 12:41 AM.

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agami 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 0:45:12
#182 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
IBM isn’t in charge anymore, Linux Foundation is.

Does that invalidate my points?

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agami 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 1:32:13
#183 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
what I see here is bunch of aros followers that still think that people will be using their crap.

instead of admit that aros x86 was screwed from the beginning and say something like: "we aros clowns were wrong about x86 and ppc, ppc has hardware feature that x86 has not, and there fore aros x86 should be something different that it is"

they still think that people will be using crap because crap is cheap.

It is obvious that either amiga solutions has integration with 68k amiga software and has no memory protection or has not integration with 68k amiga software and has memory protection.


Hush little baby, don't say a word,
Mamma's gonna buy you a Tabor board.

And if that board don't run so well,
Mama's gonna buy you some Taco Bell.

And if the tacos don't taste right
Mamma's gonna leave on the bathroom light.

Shhh, it's all going to be OK. Everyone will eventually agree with you. Regular people just need a lot more time to see the things that are "obvious" to you. Everything other than Power ISA is crap, which is why the rest of the crappy world is basing their mission critical crappy computing systems on crap. Smartphones, tablets, gaming consoles, hobby boards like Raspberry Pi, and Chromebooks will all move to Power ISA very soon.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 8:58:26
#184 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 135
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL

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KimmoK 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 12:14:27
#185 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5187
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Food for thoughts...

What's the cheapest available ARM desktop PC (with GPU card slots).
Quick search gives me this:
https://store.avantek.co.uk/arm-desktops.html (similarly priced as IBM Power boards ...~$2000)

And https://www.solid-run.com/nxp-lx2160a-family/honeycomb-workstation/ ($750)

Last edited by KimmoK on 21-Jan-2020 at 12:17 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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outlawal2 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 13:38:28
#186 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 80
From: Unknown

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Well thank you for that amazingly useful reply!
We are all enriched by your thought provoking responses..

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megol 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 14:13:24
#187 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 330
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Some people have hacked Raspberry Pi 4 to get PCIe, a quick look makes it seem hard for normal people (desolder USB3 controller chip + a lot more) but still it would make for a cheap system.


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Rose 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 14:22:30
#188 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 670
From: Unknown

@megol

Quote:
Some people have hacked Raspberry Pi 4 to get PCIe, a quick look makes it seem hard for normal people (desolder USB3 controller chip + a lot more) but still it would make for a cheap system.


Well there's alywas ROCKPro64 https://store.pine64.org/?product=rockpro64-4gb-single-board-computer . But putting GFX card on it would be kinda stućid since integrated one is good enough and dedicated card would be anyway severely CPU limited.

Last edited by Rose on 21-Jan-2020 at 02:23 PM.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 14:29:42
#189 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 135
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@outlawal2

Quote:

outlawal2 wrote:
@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Well thank you for that amazingly useful reply!
We are all enriched by your thought provoking responses..



Who are you?

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL

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outlawal2 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 14:50:12
#190 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 80
From: Unknown

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Someone that is tired of idiotic responses like
"IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

If you have nothing worthwhile to say then keep quiet
Thanks!

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Rose 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 14:58:29
#191 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 670
From: Unknown

@outlawal2

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outlawal2 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 15:22:34
#192 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 80
From: Unknown

@Rose

EXACTLY

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 21-Jan-2020 23:44:53
#193 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 135
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Oh friends outlawal2 and Rose,
you surprise me with the unfathomable depths of your poverty of spirit.

how you take yourselves oh so seriously, how seriously you take these fora.
Relax, friends, and enjoy the ride.

Let a shriek out from time to time, as yours truly does, to disguise a deeper message.
To let some of the intensity out without having to address the utter stupidity of this or that post.

My friends! What a display of last-decade internet prejudice, not to mention rudeness, to immediately label someone as a "whore". What sexism, what narrowness of mind.


In hope you might think of your actions and correct your course,

MEGA_RJ_MICAL,
lawyer and pirate,
custodian of the copper lake.

Last edited by MEGA_RJ_MICAL on 22-Jan-2020 at 01:06 AM.

_________________
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cdimauro 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 6:12:46
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1 You still continue to troll and bash against what you identified as your enemy.

Quote:
ppcamiga1 wrote:
what I see here is bunch of aros followers that still think that people will be using their crap.

Well, told by somenone which uses "ppcamiga1" as nickname makes just laugh: it's enough to mention that, history at the hand, no ppc "Amiga" existed. So, not even the first one (1).

Now a question: how much credit can have a troll which is sistematically bashing eveything but not his favorite platform, with non-sense statements?
Quote:
instead of admit that aros x86 was screwed from the beginning

Any facts to support your sentence I think is hard to give, right?
Quote:
and say something like:
"we aros clowns were wrong about x86 and ppc, ppc has hardware feature that x86 has not,
and there fore aros x86 should be something different that it is"

This is what my current Skylake "crap" offers to me:
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EM64T, VT-x, AES, AVX, AVX2, FMA3, TSX

And this is limited only to the Instruction Set -> ISA.

So, please, show me where your super mighty PPC can be better than my (now old) "x86 crap".
Quote:
they still think that people will be using crap because crap is cheap.

A self-definition with a circular reference: ladies and gentlemen, we have a logic champion here...
Quote:
It is obvious that either amiga solutions has integration with 68k amiga software and has no memory protection
or has not integration with 68k amiga software and has memory protection.

Which, by definition, is crap, but I reveal you a secret: no Amiga or AmigaOne system has memory protection. It means that all that is crap.
Quote:
something that has not integration with 68k amiga software and has not memory protection is worth nothing shit that nobody will use.

Who wants to use a system without memory protection nowdays? It's crap, right? So, your ppcamiga is crap as well.
Quote:
It is sad, because without proper solution for x86 amiga community will not go further.

Please, continue: you're making my day.
Quote:
It is not year 1998 anymore.

Ah, you recognized finally that we're talking about a system which is retro, and which should be used as it is.

There's no future for the Amiga & derivates, because everything is retro-platform. People which continues to think about a future are still living in their dreams: the real world is different...

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KimmoK 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 8:06:02
#195 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5187
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Just thinking...
https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=1432

What if Linus Torwalds would have had Amiga at some point...

Would AROS dominate the world by now (with mc and mp support), including desktop?

I think the computing world would be different, anyway.
(also it could be that Linus would not have created another OS at all)

He got into programming because he had SinclairQL without any SW at all. He had to write his own apps, in machine language, as he did not know that assembers exist. Then he saw that Unix had multitasking, so he wanted to do Unix that is easily available etc. (in the 90's he clearly did not think Amiga could do multitasking, pretty pathetic of him, right?)

Shame anyway that he has 0% interest in Amiga things. He would be valuable in kernel development etc.

*************
Listenin more of Linus...
https://youtu.be/MShbP3OpASA?t=1979
There are 1000 people developing stuff for the Linux kernel.
50 core people review those changes.

Insane!

To get truly onto desktop mainstream, Linus thinks the only possibility is companies to sell computers with Linux as the OS. Chromebooks have started that, gen1 was "crap" according to Linus, but he thinks gen5 (one day) might start to get some true "desktop" sales.

********
btw... had to refresh for myself, Linux has 1,5% market share on sold PC computers (counting sold PCs with a OS). That's more than 4.5million buyers every year. Some momentum, at least...

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 02:30 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 08:09 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 08:09 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 08:06 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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KimmoK 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 8:21:28
#196 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5187
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Rose


"Well there's alywas ROCKPro64 https://store.pine64.org/?product=rockpro64-4gb-single-board-computer ."

WOW, with $79.99 it really is good value vs money.
(just not ATX/ITX compatible)

"But putting GFX card on it would be kinda stućid since integrated one is good enough"

We have 3D drivers for Radeon series, not for any ARM GPU.

"and dedicated card would be anyway severely CPU limited."

More limited than Tabor? I doubt.
And it would free RAM space & bandwidth.
Dedicated GPU card delivers insane amount of extra teraflops to tinker with, even when one can not push GPU to it's limits.

+
example of single board computer doing 4k games via GPU card:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCd3HtRfQ8k

****************

And something different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5syd5HmDdGU
"Forget x86; OpenPower is it! Talos II Secure Workstation!"

So they have Firefox, Chromium, Unreal running, nice. I hope they use bigendian mode... (most PPC linux (Fedora) users seem to use PPC in little endian mode)
https://youtu.be/5syd5HmDdGU?t=629

Interesting headline....
"OpenPOWER Summit EU 2019: Desktop on OpenPOWER system? YES!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJeA983GZK0

Why would people want to use Power on desktop? Why not?
(Amigans need to talk to OpenPower dudes.)

Power linux ppl. work with DMA for 3D and web browsers (sounds familiar)
https://youtu.be/HJeA983GZK0?t=1603
ppc moves towards little endian....
https://youtu.be/bwXX4fqsPrQ?t=552

Amiga and Hyperion mentioned.
https://youtu.be/bwXX4fqsPrQ?t=1465

Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jan-2020 at 11:59 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jan-2020 at 11:55 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jan-2020 at 11:54 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jan-2020 at 11:46 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Jan-2020 at 11:45 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 03:16 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 03:14 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 03:09 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Jan-2020 at 03:01 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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terminills 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 11:46:42
#197 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@BSzili

My joy is to use Amiga. It is joy, it is fun, it is hobby, it is NG.
There is no fun in use of classic graphics, famous lack of chunky pixels is what made classic graphics too slow and outdated, and not worth time and work.

Main problem with x86/ARM on Amiga is that AROS followers are too stupid to get that change to cpu that not work in 32 bit big endian mode changes everything.
It is simple old 68k apps peek and poke to os and other apps and expect data in 32 bit big endian format.
Change cpu to that not work in 32 bit big endian breaks compatybility.
First thing that should be done after breaking compatybility with 68k apps was to add memory protection. It was not done and that why AROS x86 failed.
In 2020 We will be celebrating 20 th anniversary of adding JIT to uae.
2000 uae with JIT is in 2020 still more usable than AROS x86, little slower but compatible.





Just saying ;)

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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bison 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 15:18:12
#198 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1519
From: N-Space

@KimmoK

Quote:
We have 3D drivers for Radeon series, not for any ARM GPU.

The Mali drivers are closed, but the open source VideoCore driver seems to be progressing well.

Raspberry Pi 4 V3D driver gets OpenGL ES 3.1 conformance

This, to me, makes the RPi4 a better proposition than Pine.

Last edited by bison on 22-Jan-2020 at 03:19 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

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megol 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 17:02:48
#199 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 330
From: Unknown

@Rose

Ah thank you! I could have sworn that there were a ready made ARM board with a PCIe slot but couldn't find it.

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megol 
Re: What future for the Amiga platform?
Posted on 22-Jan-2020 17:08:02
#200 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 330
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Don't you mean: the real world is crap

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