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      /  AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:20:33
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

They avoided copyright trolls like Mike Battilana.

You continue to talk of things that you have no clue at all. Michele was working on the Amiga land WAY BEFORE that MorphOS, Hyperion, Amiga Inc. started, and by selling CONCRETE products.

It's clear that you're biased against Michele, without no reason: you're just an hater.

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@OlafS25

Get me right I don’t like Ben H. You know he stole money from Trever I do not support him, Hyperion is not one person.

Ben H. has the vast majority of Hyperion, so yes: it's essentially a one persone company.

And you're financing him.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:40:40
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Mike Battilana obtained many of the important copyrights that Hyperion was using
before. He did this in 2012, so Amiga Inc transferred copyrights after the Amiga Inc /
Hyperion settlement agreement that was signed in 2009. This information be official
news in 2015.

https://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html

Mike Battilana never needed the copyrights, he already had none exclusive contract
with Escom, to distribute AmigaOS3.1. As part of this emulation package.

With aim to milk a dead cow.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 10:57 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:48 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:44 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:43 PM.

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matthey 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:58:42
#103 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 843
From: Kansas

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
Get me right I don’t like Ben H. You know he stole money from Trever I do not support him, Hyperion is not one person.


OlafS25 is correct that Hyperion is controlled by Ben and it is because he owns more than 50% of the stock. Majority ownership gives control of the company (votes cast by majority owner always win). Ben has raised capital multiple times by increasing his investment which dilutes the other share holders although all that matters for control is majority ownership. Raising capital was likely to service debt. From the last Hyperion statement, it looks like 68k AmigaOS sales are slowing. I don't see any end game for Hyperion even if he wins in court and is allowed to keep selling the 68k AmigaOS. If he loses it is a fast death and if he wins it is a slow death for Hyperion.

Quote:

Frieden brothers are friendly for the most part but easy offended, way they don’t hang around here. Frieden brothers has doing contract work for Hyperion, so far as I know they were never acutely employed.


The Frieden brothers have no control at Hyperion. Why are we talking about the contracted Frieden brothers in connection with the business decisions and behavior of Hyperion?

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
Mike Battilana obtained many of the important copyrights that Hyperion was using before. He did this in 2012, so Amiga Inc transferred copyrights after the Amiga Inc / Hyperion settlement agreement that was signed in 2009. This information be official news in 2015.

https://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html

Mike Battilana never needed the copyrights, he already had none exclusive contract with Escom, to distribute AmigaOS3.1. As part of this emulation package.

With aim to milk a dead cow.


You can't milk a dead cow!

Anyone wanting to do something with the Amiga needs to secure the rights and IP. There is nothing wrong with this. Hyperion could have done the same if they weren't in debt from trying to milk a dead cow.

Last edited by matthey on 27-Oct-2020 at 11:08 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 23:09:24
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@matthey

Quote:
The Frieden brothers have no control at Hyperion. Why are we talking about
the contracted Frieden brothers in connection with the business decisions and
behavior of Hyperion?


The argument was if don’t like someone they must be wrong, or something like that.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 10:58 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 11:11 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 23:33:32
#105 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

You seem to believe the lawsuit between Hyperion and Cloanto is the reason why there is no development for years now. I would say even without this there would have been no development. I do not think there would be any difference to now. Who is investing in Hyperion and AOS4 development? Ben H.? And financing your company by exploiting voluntaries is nothing with future. Only selling 68k roms to finance AOS4 development is not working. How do you think AOS4 development is getting financed with paid developers? If there is no idea it is becoming difficult. For me lawsuit or corona are only cheap excuses for no progress.

I remember there was a discussion to get monthly payments by amigaos users but I doubt that brings enough money, expecially if you do not get monthly updates for it.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2020 at 11:36 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 0:23:27
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@OlafS25

There are users who has ask if was it's possible to donate to Hyperion,
Hyperion turns down offers like that. So it just from sales of Games and OS,
and out of Ben H. pocket I guess. What ever contract work they can do.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 10:58 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 12:29 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 12:26 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 12:25 AM.

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BigD 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 1:51:59
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5421
From: UK

@amigakit

Quote:
I am very pleased with the work that has gone into the Enhancer Software and the firm foundations it has established. Many of us have read the recent discussions here and on other forums. I urge others not to get disheartened because as a community we can drive forward development and achieve great things.


The Enhancer project is a great bandaid to keep AmigaOS from completely stagnating. Hyperion must be struggling to see a way out or to persevere with any business plan beyond legal fight for survival! It's sad and it would have been a lot better for everyone if they'd cut there loses and put themselves up for sale rather than accept bailout money and lines of credit and keep trading like a zombie company! The way they treated Steve Solie was very poor considering he gave much needed leadership to their volunteer and part time team of developers. The way they are dragging the Amiga's legacy through the courts is sad. I'm sure there IS a way to work together with Mike Battilana as he IS reasonable. Three pieces of advice for Hyperion:

SETTLE, SETTLE, SETTLE!

Last edited by BigD on 28-Oct-2020 at 01:55 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 6:07:39
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmigaQuote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Mike Battilana obtained many of the important copyrights that Hyperion was using before. He did this in 2012, so Amiga Inc transferred copyrights after the Amiga Inc / Hyperion settlement agreement that was signed in 2009. This information be official news in 2015.

https://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html

Mike Battilana never needed the copyrights, he already had none exclusive contract with Escom, to distribute AmigaOS3.1. As part of this emulation package.

It's quite evident that you don't read the links that yourself report neither know the products that Cloant is selling. From your link:

"makes Cloanto the rights holder of not just any Amiga related products and media, but also the system software, documentation, Commodore-owned publications, videos and advertisements for Commodore's various product lines."

Have you ever tried Amiga Forever? I don't think so, otherwise you have immediately recognized the connection.

Last and not really least, what's the problem with Michele owning all Commodore IPs? This does NOT affect the EXISTING agreements, included the ones with Hyperion for the development of OS4 and successors.

Can you tell me ONE reason why this creates problems?
Quote:
With aim to milk a dead cow.

It's dead Jim...

Michele already said that the Amiga Forever sells are just maintaining this business. So, he's not rich neither becoming rich only because he acquired all Commodore's IPs.
And it's quite clear that you don't now him, otherwise you would had known that he's driven by passion.

On the exact contrary you're defending Hyperion and Ben H., with all the mess that they created. Why? Do you like the evil side?

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@OlafS25

There are users who has ask if was it's possible to donate to Hyperion, Hyperion turns down offers like that. So it just from sales of Games

Which games have been sold by Hyperion in the last years?
Quote:
and OS,

Especially the 68K one, and they had no right to do it. They also changed the copyright strings inside the ROMs: guess why...
Quote:
and out of Ben H. pocket I guess.

It isn't yet Christmas time...
Quote:
What ever contract work they can do.

Without employees? Can you tell me how a company can work this way?

Hyperion has to only thank the developers which like to be milked only for the glory...

@OlafS25 Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

You seem to believe the lawsuit between Hyperion and Cloanto is the reason why there is no development for years now. I would say even without this there would have been no development. I do not think there would be any difference to now. Who is investing in Hyperion and AOS4 development? Ben H.? And financing your company by exploiting voluntaries is nothing with future. Only selling 68k roms to finance AOS4 development is not working. How do you think AOS4 development is getting financed with paid developers? If there is no idea it is becoming difficult.

*
Quote:
For me lawsuit or corona are only cheap excuses for no progress.

Corona is a very lame excuse. Hyperion is selling (!) software, not bananas in the street market...

In my company the productivity slightly INCREASED during the 2.5 months lockdown.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 7:36:25
#109 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 377
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

ZORRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 8:20:12
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Read this to get the fullback story.

https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress.com/2019/02/15/hyperion-vs-cloanto-the-longest-running-lawsuit-in-the-history-of-computing/

Quote:
Last and not really least, what's the problem with Michele owning all
Commodore IPs? This does NOT affect the EXISTING agreements,
included the ones with Hyperion for the development of OS4 and successors.


Interesting so way did Cloanto sue Hyperion?

https://casetext.com/case/cloanto-corp-v-hyperion-entmt-cvba-1

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 10:59 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 08:39 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 08:37 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2020 at 08:31 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 11:02:24
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

you do not know?

First both businesses were separated... Hyperion did "NG" and Cloanto "Classic".

Then Hyperion delivered the original 68k roms with AmigaOS

Then Hyperion realized Cloanto did nothing against it

Then Hyperion sold licenses of the roms to iComp (business of Cloanto)

Then still nothing happened

Then it sold 3.1.4 and then Cloanto started the lawsuit

Both have different views about the settlement and what both sides can do in "classic"

But you certainly knew that already

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number6 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 15:08:16
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10910
From: In the village

@OlafS25

Quote:
First both businesses were separated... Hyperion did "NG" and Cloanto "Classic".


It started before the ink was dry on the Hyperion/Amiga Inc. settlement, 11 years ago.

It started by the abuse of Cloanto's emulation business, not classic. This is already a matter of record. If you don't know about this, ask Trevor/David if it's going to be in the new book. heh.
Otherwise, just google/research Manomio.

#6

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Hypex 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 16:09:50
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10093
From: Greensborough, Australia

@cdimauro

Quote:
Customers have already paid for AmigaOS4.2, and never saw it.


Neither have the developers. It doesn't exist! For even OS4.2 to exist it must first be developed. Otherwise it's just some kind of noun.

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TearsOfMe 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 17:06:53
#114 ]
Member
Joined: 31-Dec-2009
Posts: 86
From: Westerwald

@all, esp. A-EON:

Has anyone tested ImageFX PPC?
Is it ready to buy? I can not find any info on the Website or Amisphere.
And what means "contains some legacy 68k assembly code"……?

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number6 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 17:10:32
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10910
From: In the village

@TearsOfMe

Quote:
Is it ready to buy?


No, not yet. Those responsible will have to speak to any timeline.

#6

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Rob 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 18:58:39
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5959
From: S.Wales

@cdimauro

Quote:
Which games have been sold by Hyperion in the last years?


They updated Freespace including fixing an issue that caused messed up colours on Radeon SI cards. They finally got Gorky17 out of the door . They released an OS4.x native versions of Shogo. Not a big deal but still welcome additions.

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Rob 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 19:26:31
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5959
From: S.Wales

@OlafS25

I spotted a few errors and omissions in your timeline so I've corrected them to the best of my ability.

Quote:

First both businesses were separated... Hyperion did "NG" and Cloanto "Classic".

Then Hyperion delivered the original 68k roms with AmigaOS

Then Hyperion realized C̶l̶o̶a̶n̶t̶o̶ Amiga Inc did nothing against it

Hyperion licensed production of physical 3.1 roms to A-EON

Then Hyperion sold licenses of the roms and Workbench disks to iComp (business of Cloanto)

Then still nothing happened

Cloanto started bundling OS4.1 Classic with Amiga Forever

Hyperion started selling a slightly updated Kickstart 3.1 as a digitial download which included the 1.3 rom

Cloanto objected to the inclusion of the 1.3 rom and started their first lawsuit against Hyperion

Then it sold 3.1.4 and then C̶l̶o̶a̶n̶t̶o̶ s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ t̶h̶e̶ l̶a̶w̶s̶u̶i̶t̶

Both have different views about the settlement and what both sides can do in "classic"

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 21:32:22
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL: can you edit your post? It broke the site layout.


@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Read this to get the fullback story.
https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress.com/2019/02/15/hyperion-vs-cloanto-the-longest-running-lawsuit-in-the-history-of-computing/

Sorry, but after this:
"The A1222 was due out Q1 2018. It remains on hold until the lawsuits are finished. Keeping Hyperion and Aeon in court is a matter of survival for Cloanto at this point"
pile of sh*it, it doesn't reserve to be red.

As usual Jon "The bunny"* Aasenden shows his blind fanaticism.

* because this "great man" banned me on FB, on a post in the Commodore Amiga group, once I started to rebut all his idiocies one by one, and he also deleted my comments on his site. He prefers to escape like a bunny from any comparison.
Quote:
Quote:
Last and not really least, what's the problem with Michele owning all
Commodore IPs? This does NOT affect the EXISTING agreements,
included the ones with Hyperion for the development of OS4 and successors.


Interesting so way did Cloanto sue Hyperion?

https://casetext.com/case/cloanto-corp-v-hyperion-entmt-cvba-1

Others have already clarified the situation.


@number6 Quote:

number6 wrote:
@OlafS25 Quote:
First both businesses were separated... Hyperion did "NG" and Cloanto "Classic".


It started before the ink was dry on the Hyperion/Amiga Inc. settlement, 11 years ago.

It started by the abuse of Cloanto's emulation business, not classic. This is already a matter of record. If you don't know about this, ask Trevor/David if it's going to be in the new book. heh.
Otherwise, just google/research Manomio.

#6

I searched, but I haven't found a single page clearly describing what happen. Any chance to provide on link from your huge "database"?


@TearsOfMe Quote:

TearsOfMe wrote:
@all, esp. A-EON:

Has anyone tested ImageFX PPC?
Is it ready to buy? I can not find any info on the Website or Amisphere.
And what means "contains some legacy 68k assembly code"……?

It means that ImageFX code has still some 68K assembly code, so it needs to rewritten in PowerPC assembly or, even better, in C/C++ so that it can be compiled with an architecture which is different from 68K.


@Rob Quote:

Rob wrote:
@cdimauro
Quote:
Which games have been sold by Hyperion in the last years?

They updated Freespace including fixing an issue that caused messed up colours on Radeon SI cards. They finally got Gorky17 out of the door . They released an OS4.x native versions of Shogo. Not a big deal but still welcome additions.

I see.

Did Hyperion paid the developers which worked on that stuff?

@Rob Quote:

Rob wrote:
@OlafS25

I spotted a few errors and omissions in your timeline so I've corrected them to the best of my ability.

Cloanto started bundling OS4.1 Classic with Amiga Forever

Wasn't it due to an agreement between Hyperion and Cloanto?

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number6 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 21:37:47
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10910
From: In the village

@cdimauro

Quote:
I searched, but I haven't found a single page clearly describing what happen. Any chance to provide on link from your huge "database"?


I've written about this many places and times, but this might be the more consolidated version:
Source

#6

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 28-Oct-2020 22:14:18
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@number6 Quote:

number6 wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:
I searched, but I haven't found a single page clearly describing what happen. Any chance to provide on link from your huge "database"?


I've written about this many places and times, but this might be the more consolidated version:
Source

#6

I had to go the previous page to get the context, but it's VERY interesting, thanks. I'm just reporting the relevant writing for other users here:
Quote:
Hyperion's track record, your rather anaemic denialism notwithstanding. Nothing is safe, not even GPL. Not even work done for free, apparently.

If they're happy to sell IP they didn't own to companies like Manomio which destroyed the chances of retro games coming back, they would be happy to stab the community in the back over sites like these, if they got their grubby little paws on it.
[...]
Mike told Timothy that it was the Manomio case that had brought the initial cease and
desist involving Hyperion, to which Ben had promised explanations, and which ultimately
led to the 2016 case, which did not come out of the blue as Timothy thought.

How is possible that people can still blindly support Hyperion? Any doubt who is THE evil here?

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