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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  New mini update from Hyperion
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PosterThread
cdimauro 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 15-May-2021 16:11:19
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@amigang

It’s not Blue vs Red, its Black & Blue vs Red.

Because the war never ended,

Which "war"? The holy war of you Talibans?
Quote:
but has been one-sided for a very long time, with bashing of Hyperion,

Are you still supporting Hyperion even after what came out in the last months (see emails exchange of Ben and Ewan)?

To me Ben deserves a "honorable" third place in Commodore/Amiga history, with Irvin and Medhi.
Quote:
and Power PC,

Nobody needs to bash a dead platform.
Quote:
and way not do this or that, they can’t de done, has answered many times, its all on repeat.

Who asked for what? Nobody asked something here, but you're free to quote and provide links, if you think differently.
Quote:
I guess they blame MorphOS and AROS failure to push Window and Linux out of the marked on Hyperion.

Did I miss something? Because MorphOS and AROS are pretty alive, and continuosly receiving updates.

What was the last update that you got with OS4? The timer issue fixed? Nice improvement.
Quote:
Its not wherry logical, but they are like football hooligans.

I assume that you were talking against your mirror, here...

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Rob 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 15-May-2021 17:00:50
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6069
From: S.Wales

@cdimauro

Quote:
What was the last update that you got with OS4? The timer issue fixed? Nice improvement


December 23rd 2020.

Hyperion Entertainment is proud to announce the immediate release of update 2 for AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition. Update 2 is by far the largest update ever released for AmigaOS and includes more than 200 updated components with hundreds of bug fixes, improvements and new features and six completely new OS components. The update is the combined effort of four years of AmigaOS development and will bring AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition to a completely new level of stability and usability.

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bison 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 15-May-2021 17:02:07
#83 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1873
From: N-Space

@outrun1978

Quote:
What colour are you if your Amiga flavour is a Raspberry Pi 400 running Amikit? 😉

Raspberry, of course.

http://raspberry.colorcode.is/

Let the Red vs. Raspberry wars commence! (It'll be something to do until the lawsuit is settled.)

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 15-May-2021 17:34:52
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11868
From: Norway

@outrun1978

I guess you’re trying to save the world, maybe green color or something.

But typically, groups are divided by OS/version, not by hardware,

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-May-2021 at 05:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-May-2021 at 05:37 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 16-May-2021 6:45:11
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@Rob Quote:

Rob wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:
What was the last update that you got with OS4? The timer issue fixed? Nice improvement

December 23rd 2020.

Hyperion Entertainment is proud to announce the immediate release of update 2 for AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition. Update 2 is by far the largest update ever released for AmigaOS and includes more than 200 updated components with hundreds of bug fixes, improvements and new features and six completely new OS components. The update is the combined effort of four years of AmigaOS development and will bring AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition to a completely new level of stability and usability.

Correct. Updates are so rare with OS4 which I forgot this. My bad.

Compare it with MorphOS:
https://morphos-team.net/news

and AROS:
https://github.com/aros-development-team/AROS
https://github.com/aros-development-team/AROS/commits/
https://vmwaros.blogspot.com/2020/12/icaros-desktop-23-now-available.html

Not only bug-fixes or a few minor new things added, like with the last OS4.

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kolla 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 16-May-2021 7:28:20
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1808
From: Trondheim, Norway

The “update 2” of 4.1FE had no updates of Roadshow components - why was that?

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Rob 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 16-May-2021 14:46:31
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6069
From: S.Wales

@kolla

Is there a pressing need for an updated version of Roadshow for 4.1FE?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 16-May-2021 17:24:20
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11868
From: Norway

@Rob

Quote:
Is there a pressing need for an updated version of Roadshow for 4.1FE?


You can find some comments from Olaf Barthel on it on EAB

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=104013&page=2

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Fl@sh 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 16-May-2021 20:46:39
#89 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 228
From: Napoli - Italy

@cdimauro

Quote:
I've absolutely no problem with the amiga o.s. being used on embedded systems: I think that it's one of the best o.ses ever for this field (removing the Amiga chipset dependency).


Usually they call it AOS4, or even MOS or AROS

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kolla 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 17-May-2021 6:20:52
#90 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1808
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Rob

Yes, on certain system configuration, OS4 Roadshow struggles to even keep up the connection once you throw some traffic on it. This was fixed a long time ago on 68k.

The real reason why Roadshow on OS4 seems stuck in backwaters is because lack of time and bad communication - apparently even key developers were taken by surprise by the OS4.1FE update 2 thing and didn’t have time to prepare.

https://amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/thread/AN-2020-12-00059-DE.html

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AP 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 17-May-2021 8:26:02
#91 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 593
From: Vienna/Austria

@kolla: "bad communication" is your very own interpretation, Olsen didn't said this in the thread you linked. He just said that it was a positive surprise that the update was ready for release in December 2020.

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samo79 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 17-May-2021 11:41:59
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3437
From: Italy, Perugia

@cdimauro

Quote:
Not only bug-fixes or a few minor new things added, like with the last OS4.


AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 - ChangeLog.guide --> 125 Kb

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cdimauro 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 18-May-2021 6:00:31
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@Fl@sh Quote:

Fl@sh wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:
I've absolutely no problem with the amiga o.s. being used on embedded systems: I think that it's one of the best o.ses ever for this field (removing the Amiga chipset dependency).

Usually they call it AOS4, or even MOS or AROS

Well, it's not really removed: the APIs and data structures are still there. Some aren't implemented, but some others are implemented "emulating" the behavior of the old chipset, or the APIs are still limited to the Amiga hardware.

@samo79 Quote:

samo79 wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:
Not only bug-fixes or a few minor new things added, like with the last OS4.

AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 - ChangeLog.guide --> 125 Kb

Which means... nothing (and I can't even take a look).

Let me quote again myself:
"Not only bug-fixes or a few minor new things added, like with the last OS4."
and then I ask you: how many features/components/tools which are NOT bug fixes and NOT minor new things were added?

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Trixie 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 18-May-2021 7:44:57
#94 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2012
From: Czech Republic

@cdimauro

Quote:
Not only bug-fixes or a few minor new things added, like with the last OS4

You are absolutely right that OS4.1 FE Update 2 only contained bug fixes and minor new things. This is why it's called an update, right?

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kas1e 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 18-May-2021 8:06:38
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3490
From: Russia

@cdimauro

http://kas1e.mikendezign.com/aos4/ChangeLog_os4fe_update2.guide

And while it called "update2" it contain new things. Check the changelog if you for real interested (but sure you don't as you love to have your agenda and change the opinion based on truth is probabaly not in what you interested, right ?:) .

This update It's that massive, that can't be calle "update", it even can be called a new version of OS if one care. Amount of changes, fixes, improvements are very big for real. So saying "nothing is blablalb", its really wrong and not true. How much i dislike what Ben may do or doing back in past, i still didn't feel it good enough to hide the truth : and truth is that there were a lot of work done on os4 in last years by all os4 developers. And that didn't mean Ben is ok an Hyperion do all allright. Its different matter.

@trixie

While it calle update, it still contain new stuff too:

1. new dos.library, new handlers (ram handlers, appdir handler, env handler etc),
2. pasemi_dma.resource
3. Append cmd
4. DiskDoctor v2
5. SataControl
6. ssh2-handler

That just brief check on changelog.guide above. But i am sure cdimauro doesn't much care about while have his opinion without knowing the details :)

Last edited by kas1e on 18-May-2021 at 08:10 AM.
Last edited by kas1e on 18-May-2021 at 08:09 AM.
Last edited by kas1e on 18-May-2021 at 08:08 AM.

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kolla 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 18-May-2021 8:20:46
#96 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1808
From: Trondheim, Norway

@AP

Developers shouldn’t be surprised about releases, they should be involved and be prepared. The update 2 release seems to have been a rather ad-hoc decision to push out whatever is roughly ready at the time.

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AP 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 18-May-2021 8:49:14
#97 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 593
From: Vienna/Austria

@kolla: He was aware of the release (as every betatester and developer on the AOS4-mailinglist) but it was a positive surprise for him, that the release was ready for December after all. That's at least what he's says there in German, maybe your German is better than mine.

I don´t say that everything is perfect with AmigaOS4 and its development but please don't see negative stuff where it isn't.

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matthey 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 19-May-2021 1:03:27
#98 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1141
From: Kansas

cdimauro Quote:

Hum. I think that here Mr. Jenison was mixing two things.
The VideoToaster was possible because the Amiga had a system clock which was synched with TV standards (also PAL in Europe, and SECAM in France), so implementing a genlock was a perfect fit.

However this doesn't tell anything concrete about the Amiga o.s. capabilities as real-time o.s.. I mean: I don't see how the Amiga hardware allows the Amiga o.s. to be entitled as "real-time".

Those are just declarations to me, but not proofs: no facts supporting the statements.


It is the Amiga hardware and software working together which allowed the Toaster to be real time for that application. The best real time systems in the world aren't fast enough or responsive enough to measure or respond to something like particles traveling near the speed of light measured by copper wires yet they are called real time. They are real time for their applications and they use a RTOS which is designed for real time use. A RTOS installed on some hardware will not be responsiveness to be real time for some applications. A non-real time OS will be responsive enough for some real time applications. There are no latencies or timings which universally define real time but there are for particular applications. The AmigaOS was designed to be minimal and responsive and it allowed the Amiga to be used for more real time applications than most other desktop computers. The AmigaOS design resembles a RTOS yet was targeted at the desktop instead of embedded markets. I wonder how many of those preemptive multitasking microkernel RTOSs copied the AmigaOS design which predates them. The 68k architecture was the most popular for 32 bit embedded use, then SuperH and then ARM Thumb2 which were each influenced by the predecessor. The embedded software and hardware ended up looking like the Amiga.

cdimauro Quote:

I think that we're mixing different things here as well.

As I've already said, I've no problem stating that the Amiga o.s. was/is a very good candidate for being used for embedded markets.

However in such market hardware and/or software compatibility isn't very important.

Specifically, the Amiga hardware can be an handicap, because this forces the Amiga o.s. to be bounded to this hardware, whereas on an embedded system you may not need this hardware (I/O is much more important; and CIAs aren't strictly bounded to the Amiga hardware). What I want to say is that you don't need to have any display logic, the Copper, the Blitter, the audio channels, etc. etc. Embedded needs are... custom, but from another perspective.


Hardware and software compatibility is nice for embedded too! Some embedded applications have requirements where this is not possible, especially minimal embedded systems for energy savings or cost reduction but there are many embedded applications where a standard system is invaluable. The extra hardware features are usually not a problem for embedded use as can be seen on the Raspberry Pi and can be appealing for many embedded uses. It was the default monolithic Linux OS which was swapped out as it was not responsive enough or small enough memory footprint for some embedded uses. Would this be a problem for the AmigaOS on standard and cheap hardware?


cdimauro Quote:

Those look kluges to me, applied to solve a very bad design problem.


The problem was that the Motorola 68000 CPU design and the Amiga custom chip design were not fully compatible so no CAS or TAS instructions were allowed. Supporting SMP may have been a problem anyway as it was not clear back then that it would be so important in the future. The AmigaOS actually holds up better than most of the old single tasking or cooperative multitasking systems. The hardware limitations didn't keep CBM from experimenting with multi-core solutions using hardware.

cdimauro Quote:

I hope that he wasn't involved on the Aquarius project:
http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2019/12/and-now-for-something-completely_29.html
https://archive.org/details/scorpius_architecture/mode/2up



I expect Aquarius was the project Carl Sassenrath was working on. He left when he realized it was too ambitious and before it was cancelled. There were some really smart people working for Apple at that time despite all the failed projects. Apple almost ended up going bankrupt like CBM but was bailed out by a Microsoft loan.

cdimauro Quote:

Is he Mitch's brother?


I did *not* ask Mitch Alsup or Dave Alsup that question although it is a good question whether they are related. It seemed like too personal of a question for how short of time I communicated with them. They were both still interested in the 68k.

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klx300r 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 19-May-2021 2:19:28
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3645
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:
@cdimauro Quote:
Not only bug-fixes or a few minor new things added, like with the last OS4

@ Trixe wrote:
You are absolutely right that OS4.1 FE Update 2 only contained bug fixes and minor new things. This is why it's called an update, right?


now now Trixie you've been around long enough to know you shouldn't make sense in these types of threads eh

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amigang 
Re: New mini update from Hyperion
Posted on 19-May-2021 8:19:40
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1650
From: Cheshire, England

@outrun1978

Trying not to be a colour or camp I feel the market to small for fights anymore, wish we had more projects like Hollywood that are designed for all camps and all software made in it can run on which ever platform Amiga users want to use.

However I am more a fan and more invested in what’s going on with amigaos4 than most camps, I loved to use my AmigaONE x1000 more, but the browser could do with another update and more stability would nice, the update was a bit of mess, thankfully hot fix seem to fix most issue but I still get the odd grim Reaper witch is annoying, enhance software 2.0 I haven got around to getting as i don’t know if I use my x1000 enough anymore to justify, plus most of the update feel aimed at x5000 users.

It true I’m enjoying amikit on pi, it’s a great setup in my opinion and such a cheap option for Amiga fans, and yes I kinda wish it was os4 on the pi I feel it would expand the market and give a future of the platform which with it being stuck on PPC I find harder to see.

But I support all efforts that push the platform forwards and expands the market.

Last edited by amigang on 19-May-2021 at 08:24 AM.

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