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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
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Poll : What would you pay for a AOS 4.X Pi license?
0 to 50 US
50 to 100 US
100 to 150 US
150 and above
Bisquick !
 
PosterThread
OneTimer1 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 22-May-2021 11:29:23
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 642
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:


I think differently. An Amiga-/like o.s port to a RPi can led not only to profits, but a great increasing of the Amiga base & support.


AEROS 4.0.1 – Raspberry Pi 1, 2 & 3
https://vintageisthenewold.com/aeros-4-0-1-raspberry-pi-1-2-3/

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 23-May-2021 8:34:52
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2252
From: Germany

@OneTimer1Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:

I think differently. An Amiga-/like o.s port to a RPi can led not only to profits, but a great increasing of the Amiga base & support.

AEROS 4.0.1 – Raspberry Pi 1, 2 & 3
https://vintageisthenewold.com/aeros-4-0-1-raspberry-pi-1-2-3/

AREOS == Linux != AROS.

AEROS is AROS running as guest on Linux. So, not a native port to RPi.

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 23-May-2021 8:37:00
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2252
From: Germany

@pavlor Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro Quote:
Better to improve QEMU, instead. OS4 and MorphOS already run on the pure QEMU, without the burden of the Amiga custom chips emulation.

In theory, yes. However, from end user POV WinUAE is far more mature for OS4.

Interesting. What are the more sensible differences (in favor of WinUAE)?
Quote:
That being said, improving PowerPC CPU emulation speed (QEMU) would certainly help.

That was my point.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 24-May-2021 14:14:57
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

I am thinking that Amiga OS4.X on Emulation with full Acceleration could bring more developers this way.
I am not for sure how this would hurt Hardware Sales.

Some may want to know why they would want to invest time or money in this particular OS, including 68K.

How many A1X5000 boards are still available, Dual or Quad?
I am curios if the Developers looked at other PPC Boards that was talked about on this forum.

There was mention of a 16 core PPC board that was viewed on www.youtube.com .
It looked like it was powerful.

Thanks to all those who participated.
I hope this can give some hope to the situation.

I would be willing to pay more for a license than the 100 I selected.

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Lou 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 24-May-2021 14:43:20
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4072
From: Rhode Island

All I really want is SMP-AROS-Native on RPi4...

This should be today's standard Amiga.

Why keeps supporting high-priced under performing hardware?

For *charm* just keep hugging the classics.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 24-May-2021 17:39:09
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@Lou

"All I really want is SMP-AROS-Native on RPi4..."

That would be something I would like to use.

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Lou 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 24-May-2021 19:03:12
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4072
From: Rhode Island

@Trekiej

Well it [SMP] already exists on x64...but it's a 'breaking change'...but a NEEDED change to move forward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMaFfL95nok

Last edited by Lou on 24-May-2021 at 09:19 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-May-2021 at 07:03 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 24-May-2021 19:15:49
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5194
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

100€ for HW accelerated native port.
200€ for buggy multicore supporting memoryprotected beta build

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 4:19:39
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@Lou

Thanks, M Schulz was working on a port for Pi, 32 or 64 bit I do not know.

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Turrican3 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 10:43:06
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 348
From: Italy

I've been advocating for years the Raspberry Pi as the only sensible option for low-end (which is the one and only true mass-market success of the entire Amiga line), there's literally nothing to gain by investing in the enthusiast niche first with the current numbers. Emphasis on "first", as in no way shape or form I'm implying the high end is not a viable target... it's just about the priorities IMHO, low end can (and hopefully will) move to high end sooner or later, while the opposite is not necessarily true and most of all is definitely a smaller market.

Hence I'd happily pay up to 50€ for a native, improved AmigaOS 4.x RPi port.

Of course that assumes somebody is able and willing to fund such a development effort...

Last edited by Turrican3 on 25-May-2021 at 11:12 AM.
Last edited by Turrican3 on 25-May-2021 at 10:47 AM.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 16:22:07
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

121 x 200 = 24,200 U.S. Dollars.
121 x 100 = 12,100 U.S. Dollars.

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outrun1978 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 17:17:47
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 593
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

Those are scary figures you are displaying there, it's almost approaching the total combined active userbase of OS4 and MorphOS users that are left today... And we are talking about hardware that is far more powerful and useful than the current NG hardware that is out there.

Just think, far more money will be going the developer and publisher's way once the product comes to the market as people often don't like to part with their cash and get involved at the initial idea stage. More people join the party when they start to see a tangible product they can buy.
Even more people come on board when social media influencers start to rave about the product and the people buying the product all tell their mates about the latest thing they picked up.

Just think all the things they could do with that money too... More developers and more developments, like an up to date browser, more frequent updates, new features...


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Amiga 1200 Workbench 3.1.4
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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 19:01:01
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5722
From: UK

@Turrican3

Quote:
Hence I'd happily pay up to 50€ for a native, improved AmigaOS 4.x RPi port.


Are you for real?! 50 measly Euro!!! And that is why no sane developer never mind greedy Hyperion lawyers would invest so much in a product that you would only spend 50 Euros on!

Heck AmigaOS 3.2 without Kickstart Roms or Floppys costs, wait for it...

... approximately 44.11 Euro!!!

And that is based on a hell of a lot of legacy 68k code! The Arm code would have to be written from scratch!

Who would you contract to do the work for your 50 Euro x 1000 other RPi AmigaOS paid up users (let's be optimistic)?
That's 50,000 Euro for what? 5 years work to get basic functionality without even a JIT PPC emulator? 10,000 Euro a year to a solo developer? Is that what you envisage?

... or as I expect you think a team of budding developers will do this for free to make Ben Hermans rich (or very slightly less in debt )?

Last edited by BigD on 25-May-2021 at 07:05 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 25-May-2021 at 07:04 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 25-May-2021 at 07:02 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 19:13:46
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5722
From: UK

@outrun1978

Quote:
Just think, far more money will be going the developer and publisher's way once the product comes to the market as people often don't like to part with their cash and get involved at the initial idea stage. More people join the party when they start to see a tangible product they can buy.


It's far more likely that the Open Source PPC Laptop project will lead to an AmigaOS port rather than an ISA change while PPC is hobbling on.

PPC AND Power would have to be dead as a dodo for Hyperion/A-EON to do a full ISA change. There is a reason there is no AmigaOS on Smart Phones or on the RPi and that's because no one can afford the upfront investment cost and the risk of it failing financially! It's better to release products in the 'retro' or 'Amiga-in-a-joystick' market than risk a RPi AmigaOS release being pirated and being distributed for free after a lot of hard work!

If you think that it won't happen then look at the Vampire and CoffinOS!

Last edited by BigD on 25-May-2021 at 07:16 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 25-May-2021 at 07:15 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 19:20:41
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5722
From: UK

@Thread

... oh yeah and even the PPC Notebook Project has only 13 days to raise over 46% of the funding for three prototypes! Are we all expecting Trevor to pay that upfront cost too?

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 19:26:03
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5722
From: UK

@Thread

And for the record I think that a port to RPi WAS the correct way forward but it should have been started 7 years ago. That's about the length of time the Tabor project has been going!!!

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 25-May-2021 20:36:45
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9223
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
What are the more sensible differences (in favor of WinUAE)?


GFX: WinUAE supports UAEGFX with similar resolutions to host OS, OS4 can use only old CLGD5446 or SM502 in QEMU (both fairly limited in features). Note Toni Willen improved Cirrus Logic emulation, because AmigaOS required more featutes than those implemented in Bochs/Qemu package. Also from my experience, GFX emulation in QEMU is rather slow.
File transfer: WinUAE supports host filesystem for basic data transfer, OS4 can´t (as far as I know) so easily access virtual FAT drive supported by QEMU.

There may be more, but these two points above are probably most visible for the end user.

Note I didn´t try latest QEMU/PPC releases, but last time I checked, OS4 emulation was far from useable. WinUAE is mature in comparison: just yesterday I played Ultima I under Apple II emulation (ApplePC) running under DosBox for OS4 itself emulated in WinUAE (quite a nested emulation: 65C02-80386-604e on x64 host).

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matthey 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 26-May-2021 0:47:15
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 965
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

And that is based on a hell of a lot of legacy 68k code! The Arm code would have to be written from scratch!


Most of the AmigaOS code is in C. It would likely need significant changes especially if moving to little endian which is more optimal and future proof on AArch64. Major changes would be needed for adding SMP, 64 bit, memory protection and resource tracking but it is doable when breaking compatibility. There would not be much software as even Amiga programs with source code available would need significant changes before recompiling.

BigD Quote:

Who would you contract to do the work for your 50 Euro x 1000 other RPi AmigaOS paid up users (let's be optimistic)?
That's 50,000 Euro for what? 5 years work to get basic functionality without even a JIT PPC emulator? 10,000 Euro a year to a solo developer? Is that what you envisage?


Maybe Hyperion could have developers work on the port to ARM for free if there are enough who are interested. I don't think 1000 sales is worth the effort for a new platform with hardly any software. Maybe 10,000 sales would make it more interesting but I can't see it being a success even with that. If the OS was given away for free, could the user base reach 100,000? I don't see it. AROS x86-64 which is free added SMP and 64 bit support while breaking compatibility but I doubt the active user base is even 10,000. I bet Hyperion sells over 10,000 copies of AmigaOS 3.2 for the 68k and it requires an expanded Amiga and willingness to support Hyperion.

BigD Quote:

PPC AND Power would have to be dead as a dodo for Hyperion/A-EON to do a full ISA change. There is a reason there is no AmigaOS on Smart Phones or on the RPi and that's because no one can afford the upfront investment cost and the risk of it failing financially! It's better to release products in the 'retro' or 'Amiga-in-a-joystick' market than risk a RPi AmigaOS release being pirated and being distributed for free after a lot of hard work!


A-Eon is slowly going forward with PPC but not so much Hyperion. Maybe Hyperion has had enough of losing money developing a PPC AmigaOS for so few sales. Maybe they can cut development costs by not paying AmigaOS 4 developers and share development with the 68k AmigaOS. I can't see Tabor or a PPC laptop saving the fading PPC AmigaOS market though. PPC isn't a good candidate for a smart phone, Amiga in a joystick or a small Raspberry Pi like SBC. A 68k SoC with Amiga custom chips for maximum Amiga software compatibility is a better choice. The love and momentum is with the 68k Amiga and many Amiga users will *not* move to another architecture.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 26-May-2021 1:20:13
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@thread
I have said before, lower cost PPC Hardware would be helpful.
A motherboard and cpu for 500 U.S. would help alot.

edit: I do not know if this is the best idea.
It seems like there is a better chance of having hardware made than software ported.

We are down to two items, port the software or make lower cost hardware.

Is Aros SMP 64 bit not getting more help?
It is Open Source.

Which is better to port, OS 3 or OS 4?

We will keep trying.

Last edited by Trekiej on 26-May-2021 at 01:26 AM.

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ne_one 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 26-May-2021 3:41:45
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 893
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

Quote:
We are down to two items, port the software or make lower cost hardware.


That only applies if maintaining the status quo is the objective.

The software is the problem.

Options already exist for maintaining legacy compatibility but porting a 35+ year old OS isn't going to buy you much. The OS needs to be rewritten and made platform independent.

The irony of all of this is the OS is tiny by today's standards and there tons of resources that could be leveraged to create a next generation solution. It doesn't need to be competitive, it just needs to be useful enough to gain interest and momentum.

Unfortunately, the biggest challenge to the platform continues to be the inane legal quagmire that keeps everything from moving forward. And why?

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