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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Back when Ben was the White Knight!
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BigD 
Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 16-Jun-2021 23:04:44
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

There was a time when Ben Hermans and Hyperion were good custodians of AmigaOS4.x and Ben even did interviews! Keep the faith Stephen Jones, he might yet reconsider!

Ive just stumbled across this interview from 2001:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-11-00060-EN.html

Its very interesting and shows what was required to secure the OS3.1 source code for the future! Its survival and its ability to be easily compiled was not a given in the early 2000s. Thanks Olaf

Last edited by BigD on 16-Jun-2021 at 11:14 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 16-Jun-2021 at 11:05 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 0:27:17
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@Thread

Maybe Gunnar is the new 'White Knight'!

http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwvonboehn_en.php

Obviously, that title would go to Trevor or Matthew really but again Gunnar seems a great guy from the interview!

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 3:47:37
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

I used to defend Gunnar ... then I got Gunnared...
Dude can't accept constructive criticism.

Before I realized the SAGA 'chipset' was just the 2nd thread of the 68080 running software, I suggested re-implementing the AKIKO into a Super AKIKO that could perhaps to C2P on 1k at a time instead of 32bytes...and add more functionality to it that could be used for 3D processing.
He spent a number of posts trashing AKIKO...

Got banned.

A year later he re-implements AKIKO and it happened to boost performance of SAGA because he uses it to speed up the conversion of planar icons to chunky on those screen modes ... and it sped up some other stuff too.
*shocker*
... I mean imagine off-loading repetitive work to a dedicated chip and finding that it's an overall performance gain...
... who would have thunk it?

Yeah...
Here's to Buffee the Vampire Slayer!
https://www.buffee.ca/

Last edited by Lou on 17-Jun-2021 at 04:07 AM.
Last edited by Lou on 17-Jun-2021 at 04:03 AM.
Last edited by Lou on 17-Jun-2021 at 04:02 AM.

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Mobileconnect 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 7:27:46
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 471
From: Unknown

@Lou

LOL yes Gunnar might be a genius but he's also a complete bastard, to basically everyone.

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AP 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 9:08:32
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD: Just for the record, there was an AF-interview with Ben Hermans in 2017:

Artikeldatenbank - Interview Ben Hermans

Last edited by AP on 17-Jun-2021 at 09:11 AM.
Last edited by AP on 17-Jun-2021 at 09:10 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 14:17:13
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@AP

Thank you Again, he comes across well and if that's true regarding Cloanto's cease and desist with no prior warning then I empathise with him.

I'm in danger of flip flopping again, but one thing is clear; Mike and Ben with Trevor's help COULD and SHOULD settle their disagreements outside of court. Why drag the Amiga entities through expensive legal battles when the only ones who win are the lawyers (and by extension that includes Ben ).

Last edited by BigD on 17-Jun-2021 at 02:18 PM.

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Fl@sh 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 14:48:19
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 246
From: Napoli - Italy

White knights doesn't exist.

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AP 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 15:04:33
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@Fl@sh: Only The Dark Knight matters... (says the DC-fan in me)



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bison 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 16:46:07
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2039
From: N-Space

@BigD

We don't need a White Knight. We need source code.

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 16:51:08
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@bison

Read the interview with Ben circa 2017; that isn't on the cards, that it a distinct limitation of the settlement. i.e. NO OPEN SOURCING POSSIBLE - LEGALLY!!!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 17:43:24
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12101
From: Norway

@BigD

So what makes Ben good or bad, is a question of if ben is willing to make AmigaOS as unfunded as AROS, or not.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Jun-2021 at 06:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Jun-2021 at 05:43 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 18:45:15
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
So what makes Ben good or bad, is a question of if ben is willing to make AmigaOS...


If taken on its own I understand this bit.

Ans: Yes, he has 'allowed' AmigaOS development to continue (though AmigaOS 4.x development has stalled for now other than A1222 Plus porting) so on that basis he is a 'good' guy!

However, he is also a lawyer by trade and since Hyperion ARE in a somewhat precarious place financially he naturally fights his corner with the weapons he has namely; IP litigation expertise in the IT Sector! Those are ideal credentials for fighting and winning in the courts against Cloanto. The suspicion is that he would RATHER do this than settle and lose ANY hard one agreements that were won at great cost from Amiga Inc. A kind of, "I've beat them before and I can do it again!" mentality.

As for your continuing comment regarding AROS, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean. Sorry.

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Rob 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 18:55:38
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6149
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Quote:
AmigaOS 4.x development has stalled for now other than A1222 Plus porting


So you have access to the beta test server and mailing list and see no updates appearing at all?

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 19:11:09
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@Rob

Enhancer would not be required if serious development money was being invested by Hyperion. I honestly don't believe that Hyperion's heart is in AmigaOS4.x development right now. Why would it be? AmigaOS3.2 is the cash cow that will see them through the court case and A-EON/AmigaKit are playing a game of chicken not wanting to renegotiate the OEM contract. In addition, AmigaKit are choosing not to stock AmigaOS 3.2 (or aren't allowed too). This all suggests things have soured somewhat for the AmigaOne partners! So no I don't expect the fabled SMT support/OS4.2 or the A1222 Plus with OEM copy of AmigaOS4.1FE any time soon. But hey if the beta testers weren't stuck behind a NDA I'm sure they'd probably (wrongly) tell me otherwise. There is only one real answer in these situations in Amigaland and it's obviously...

...

But yes, I'm sure the beta testers are have fun testing all the small fry bug fixes and I'm glad the priority is keeping them happy

After all "computers for the masses and not the classes" is a well and truly dead mantra for all things Commodore or Amiga these days

Last edited by BigD on 17-Jun-2021 at 07:38 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 17-Jun-2021 at 07:35 PM.

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bison 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 20:43:19
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2039
From: N-Space

@BigD

Quote:
NO OPEN SOURCING POSSIBLE - LEGALLY!!!

I'm looking past Hyperion. Hopefully they will go bankrupt and/or lose in court. It's nothing personal; it's just that if they manage to stay solvent and win in court, then the next ten years are going to look a lot like the last ten years.

Last edited by bison on 17-Jun-2021 at 08:43 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 20:50:52
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 747
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
There was a time when Ben Hermans and Hyperion were good custodians of AmigaOS4.x and Ben even did interviews! Keep the faith Stephen Jones, he might yet reconsider!

Ive just stumbled across this interview from 2001:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-11-00060-EN.html


And they where not even talking how Ben Hermans made his game porting company into the AmigaOS4 company, when there was already a working Amiga compatible OS for PPC.

---

Well Ben Hermans made everything for his company and the contracts he made with Amiga Inc. where the reason why AOS4 development was delayed at the beginning and halted for years later.

Only a fool or a crook wanting to scam his partner would agree to such a contract like Hyperion made with Amiga Inc.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 17-Jun-2021 at 08:53 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 21:03:23
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 747
From: Unknown

@Lou

Well the Akiko was a hardware solution that should give the planar grafic of the Amiga the same advantages a standard 8 Bit chunky GFX had. It might have some advantages in games, that where written for the CD32 (there are not many)

But the Akiko would be obsolete on a system already supporting an 8 Bit Chunky GFX.

I would have explained it to you, I would have written in in the FAQ and if you where still asking for an Akiko I would have ignored you. But I would never kicked you out of the Forum.

Well I had my dispute with Gunnar back in the Natami days, he was unable to accept the fact that a lot of advanced Amiga software needed 68020 compatibility, because they where written with no 68000 compatibility.

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matthey 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 17-Jun-2021 23:17:05
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1459
From: Kansas

Ben and Gunnar look to me like dark knights. They believe "the end justifies the means" but a white knight knows better than to sacrifice their morality to hate. We know where hate leads.

OneTimer1 Quote:

Well the Akiko was a hardware solution that should give the planar grafic of the Amiga the same advantages a standard 8 Bit chunky GFX had. It might have some advantages in games, that where written for the CD32 (there are not many)

But the Akiko would be obsolete on a system already supporting an 8 Bit Chunky GFX.


If you had read Lou's comment carefully, you would see that Akiko sped up icon rendering. Older Amiga icons are in planar format so hardware accelerated planar to chunky conversion could make them faster on chunky screens. The CV-64 Amiga gfx board also had hardware accelerated planar chunky conversion which helped to make it one of the nicest 2D Amiga gfx boards despite other newer gfx boards having more memory bandwidth and higher performance cores.

OneTimer1 Quote:

I would have explained it to you, I would have written in in the FAQ and if you where still asking for an Akiko I would have ignored you. But I would never kicked you out of the Forum.


Lou could be more diplomatic and have better technical understanding. Gunnar is very sensitive about people challenging or even questioning his decisions (insecure). There are lots of posts from users on the Apollo forum who need verification. It's almost as bad as EAB.

OneTimer1 Quote:

Well I had my dispute with Gunnar back in the Natami days, he was unable to accept the fact that a lot of advanced Amiga software needed 68020 compatibility, because they where written with no 68000 compatibility.


Yes, he didn't want to add 68020 hardware support for bitfield instructions and double indirect addressing modes. Meynaf and I finally convinced him to support bitfield instructions after showing him Dungeon Master using them, a version of GCC which used them extensively by default, TSLFMem using them and showing how they improved code density. Supporting the double indirect modes came as a surprise to me. Meynaf argued for hardware support while I found them rare enough that trapping them wouldn't be a problem if support code was available early enough. Supporting them in hardware is nicer and less likely to cause problems.

Last edited by matthey on 18-Jun-2021 at 05:42 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 17-Jun-2021 at 11:30 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 17-Jun-2021 at 11:25 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 13:56:24
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@bison

Read the interview with Ben circa 2017; that isn't on the cards, that it a distinct limitation of the settlement. i.e. NO OPEN SOURCING POSSIBLE - LEGALLY!!!


It's Ben so you should expect doublespeak and bullshit. Yes, they can't open source it bacause they don't own it. Nothing stops Cloanto or whoever actually owns it to open source it.

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 18-Jun-2021 14:33:37
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@matthey

Gunnar trash-talking AKIKO 08 Jun 2018:
http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=15535

Gunnar saying AKIKO is great on 05 Mar 2020:
http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=5¬e=28256

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