@kolla

Let's face it. Every other personal computer died. The 80s was a Cambrian Explosion of different personal computers, the 90s was a mass extinction.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @kolla Let's face it. Every other personal computer died. The 80s was a Cambrian Explosion of different personal computers, the 90s was a mass extinction.

I like this analogy.

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@Karlos

Let's face it. Commodore bankrupt because AGA has not chunky pixel.

@ppcamiga1

Are you following the discussion at all? The Atari Falcon also failed. Systems with Doom also failed. Companies that invented successful new CPU ISAs e.g. Acorn also failed! C= couldn't even lead on issues like controller buttons or giving the games developers a clear target platform besides the 1MB floppy based OCS/ECS A500/A500+!

The only Amiga Irving Gould seemed interested in was the CDTV and he didn't want it branded as an Amiga! C= died because they didn't know how to develop and sell the Amiga. The product was good but they stood still on development, didn't develop niche markets, alienated distributor networks and fired people that challenged Gould and showed business acumen while they promoting inept 'yes men'. They would have preferred to have been a PC clone company by the end despite there being no profits or opportunities doing that! They squandered the lifeline of the Amiga technology and Gould seemed to view C= as a short term cash cow to improve his retirement nest egg!

C= were a widget company from the moment they lost Chuck Peddle. While I love the Amiga, C= were a disgrace! They even tried to sink Stephen Jones' original A1500 Checkmate case because they didn't value the third party Amiga developers despite them pushing accelerators and add-ons while C= fell asleep!

Long live the Amiga! Chicken lips can kiss my a$%£!

Last edited by BigD on 02-Feb-2023 at 09:24 AM.

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@ppcamiga1

And, you are aware that Commodore DID have chunky? Commodore made at least half decent PC as well, and STILL Commodore died.

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@BigD

ppcamiga is in reality a early KI... a very early KI

I think that too, none of the companies at that time (except Apple) survived. I think the mistakes by Commodore were done in the 80s with not enough investment in development. Around 91 and 92 (when AGA arrived) it was too late already. With less wrong decisions they might have survived one or two years longer but on longterm it would have become very difficult

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Karlos Let's face it. Commodore bankrupt because AGA has not chunky pixel.

No. As has been pointed out already other systems with chunky graphics also died. It didn't save the Atari Falcon and it didn't save the Archimedes or RiscPC either.

There's no doubt the architecture was suboptimal for then emerging use cases, but it isn't the reason commodore went bankrupt. There were much more direct reasons for that.

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@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @ppcamiga1 And, you are aware that Commodore DID have chunky? Commodore made at least half decent PC as well, and STILL Commodore died.

I don't suppose commodore's terrible management and marketing had anything to do with it. I'm sure they thought denying the existence of the A3000 up to the point of launch was a great idea for people considering an upgrade to OCS.

No, it must've been the lack of punky chixels.

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@OlafS25

Quote:

ppcamiga is in reality a early KI... a very early KI

Oh come on! Siri, Goole or Alexa - all of them are smarter than this troll. They tend to repeat themselves too, but in a much better fashion. Please don't feed him, especially since with every sentence he tries to prove that you cannot really argue with him. On any level.

@chixels

That is some amazing headcanon that can boil down complex dynamics to a singular issue.

If in late 1992 the world had indeed received an Amiga home gaming personal computer, with EC030@25Hz, AA+ chipset with 2MB chip + 2MB fast, HD Floppy, CD drive, MIDI, 4-button game controller, for $599 USD, it wouldn't just mean that Commodore survives, it would mean:
- Atari and Archimedes immediately file for bankruptcy
- Commodore stock goes through the roof and they buy out both Apple and NeXT
- NewTek creates the TV Toaster for home use, for both NTSC and PAL
- NewTek acquires Silicon Graphics
- All VCR makers collaborate to support a standard control interface for Amiga + NewTek computers
- id software launches Doom on the Amiga
- All game developers abandon the Nintendo and SEGA platforms to focus entirely on Doom-like games for the Amiga AA+ chixels
- Phillips gives up on CD-i
- Sony never makes the Playstation and becomes the first AA+ clone maker, and launches a gaming console that can be expanded to a full computer
- Amiga is the 1st computer people think of for creative work and gaming
- Commodore struggles with Hombre and OS 4
- Jean-Louis Gassée sells BeOS to Commodore to rescue his failing Be Inc.
- In 1995 Commodore chooses MIPS for the next generation of Amiga computers and NewTek graphics workstations
- Commodore acquires ATi for computer graphics
- Adobe announces that Amiga is their primary OS for their creative suite of software
- Commodore buys controlling stake in NewTek
- NewTek buys controlling stake in PIXAR
- Windows 95 launch gets delayed because most of the good developers have left to work at Commodore or NewTek
- By the time the first 32-bit Windows is launched in 1997, it is too late. Microsoft stock tanks and is weeks away from bankruptcy.
- In order to avoid anti-trust suits, Commodore bails out Microsoft with a $500M investment
- Microsoft limits OS development to business functions for desktops and laptops. Never develops DirectX, and focuses on Office apps.
- Microsoft devs collaborate with Amiga OS devs to create a common server platform, 64-bit on Amiga MIPS + 32-bit on intel/AMD CPUs
- Microsoft increases focus on server applications
- By the turn of the millennium, Amiga computers represent 75% of personal computer sales world-wide.

If only we had those chixels in 1993.

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@agami

There's an alternative timeline novel in there waiting to be written.

Maybe one nerdy kid discovers (from an former chip designer come off-grid log cabin recluse) that there was an alternative to the now utterly dominant MIPS processor line. Designed at IBM but crushed under the wheels of the now utterly corrupt and evil commodore, the true natural successor to the original 68K from the good days: before Commodore's Amiga controlled every aspect of your life. Something that would've saved the soul of the original Amiga and it's 68K cousins.

The PowarPC!

He creates a website as a front, using the now completely obsolete (but still widely supported) planar IFF image format, embedding his true message in large images of hamsters there and on various boards full of similar hamster humour, steganographically embedding text and other design information in the least significant bitplane of the images, hoping that someone willmsee and contact him.

Now, in the year 2023, he and a few like-minded souls must build it using FPGA. The PowarAmiga clone, an open modular machine free of Chicken blood DRM and tyranny, running an illegal underground AmigaOS clone known only as AROS.

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They call their machine Miner. In memory of Jay, the designer of the original Amiga, who questioning the need for ubiquitous computing, ultimately became the campaigner against the relentless push of corporate computing interests into every aspect of daily life. Until commodore had him silenced, framed as a sex offender and jailed until his death.

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@agami

You forgot the part of AMIX merging in features from Irix, out featuring SunOS/Solaris, AIX and all the rest, and becoming the foundation of AmigaOS NG, replacing Commodore’s reluctant attempts at using Windows NT.

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@agami

What do you take? Please stop with it

@thread

If you compare Apple and Commodore there is one big difference... at Apple there was Steve Jobs as CEO who lead the development and had visions. He was not a technician but he was a enthusiast with a clear vision where to go. At Commodore most staff not even used amigas (the main product of the company) themselves. The result is obvious. Even with less wrong decisions the end would be the same, just later. And there was no vision at Commodore and no one (in top position) behind amiga. Even with new money Commodore would have failed. The main problem was the management and the CEO.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-Feb-2023 at 09:41 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-Feb-2023 at 09:38 AM.

@kolla

Becoming the one true Unix, and being everywhere, Stallman soon found himself in the same shunned fringe conspiracy nut circles as Jay and suffered a similar fate.

ARM was bought by MIPS, ultimately enabling the Amiga Everywhere Amiverse in which all devices, at all scales in all industries were running Amiga. Orthogonal Persistence while sold as the answer to continuum computing allowing you to take your work and play from any device to any other was also used to total surveillance and data gathering.

It is this dystopia in which our intrepid hero dares to dream of freedom....

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@OlafS25

C= was set up to operate under Jack Tramiel. A lean one man rules the roost outfit. It was fine for mass produced and cost reduced widgets. Distributors were treated poorly and suppliers weren't paid on time. These were brutal work practises to secure lean profit margins and destroy the competition like Amazon is doing today. Amazon has its own distribution so their work practises and ethics are not as easily challenged.

Once Tramiel left, the ship faltered because no other strong leadership existed after countless Jack Attacks and purges. Gould wanted to fill Tramiel's shoes but he didn't understand his own products and hired idiots to do the job. C= was doomed from that point. The irony was that if Tamiel had of stayed the Amiga would not have existed! He'd have ripped the custom chips out and discarded the rest!

Last edited by BigD on 03-Feb-2023 at 09:51 AM.

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@BigD

what I wanted to explain... amiga would have had better chances with a CEO who used and unterstood amiga with a vision where to go. There were interviews lately with former commodore sales people, they obviously not even used amigas. The technology had no real fan in the company.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 03-Feb-2023 at 09:56 AM.

Commodore bankrupt because AGA has not chunky pixel.
As everybody may check
DOOM is playable on emulated Amiga 1200 14 MHz with gfx card
and DOOM run more than enough good on emulated Amiga 1200 28 MHz with gfx card
If Amiga 1200 has chunky pixel in AGA, first page protection in AGA,
slots for fast RAM, and maybe litte faster cpu for ex 21 MHz
Commodore will work up to 1996 when Q1 was released.
Commodore will have enough time to launch hombre.
commodore failure after that are pure speculations based on nothing.

from developer point of view Amiga ppc fill like Amiga from Commodore
only better because faster.
ppc allow integration and use 68k libs in ppc code.
no ppc version of library no problem one may use 68k version.
everything works, that why amiga with ppc fill like real amiga.
for more than 25 years ppc code can use original mui.
compare that to aros x86 or arm.
after 28 years of development aros clowns still has not working mui clone.
szulc, szonwejs, agami, karlos stop trolling, start working on mui clone.

@ppcamiga1

How do you explain the demise of Atari and Acorn? They had chunky pixels and they still died. Forget doom. A 16MHz, 16-bit bus crippled 030 falcon can even render quake 1, 2 and 3 maps. With textures and lighting, thanks to a fixed point renderer based on the DSP.

Oh right, I forgot. Atari and RiscOS don't have MUI...

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