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terminills 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 1:20:09
#81 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga


a simple google search shows the difference if he's not smart enough to do that what good is his opinion at all?

Here

https://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=abi+vs+api

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 2:52:01
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2136
From: Chicago, IL

@matthey

You could add a lot of Amiga power to the X5000 if you do what I did. Place a Vampire V4 on top of it.

:)

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 9:49:54
#83 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@IridiumFX

To get new people You have to provide HARDWARE at least
at level of cheap pc from windows 95 era.
24 bit color, FPU, MMU, internet, pentium speed.

68k is either too expensive or not good enough.

That's way people like You should accept ppc.
It is nice, compatible, and at least as fast nad as comfortable as cheap pc from windows 95 era.
And still cheaper than good enough 68k.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 9:57:44
#84 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@matthey

It was explained to You.
In 1983 when designed Amiga chipset was great
and offer better quality and performance than others.
But Commodore don't spend money on R&D so rest of world catch up.
Since 1992 Amiga chipset was obsolete underpowered crap.
Since 1992 rest of world just use chunky pixels and hicolor.
I'm happy that I don't have to use chipset.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 10:20:27
#85 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@szulc

When I read your BS I feel like in 1996.
In 1996 when I first saw aros it has not Amiga compatible gui.
More than twenty years later aros still has not Amiga compatible gui.
You and rest of x86/arm aros followers should hard work
on most important parts of Amiga Os which means gui and graphics.
Rest of Amiga Os is useless, nobody need exec or dos on x86/arm.

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terminills 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 10:45:21
#86 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1


Not as useless as your opinion. I can’t believe you won the initial swimming competition. 😂😂

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AmeegaGuy 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 15:46:18
#87 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 95
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:
Programming for the 68k Classic machines was great 35 years ago, but it had its limitations in the OS and I didn't have access to the source code then. These days I not only have access to all the soure code, I wrote some of it, and I understand how most of it works. So when I want my Amigas to do something they can't do, I can make them do it. No other platform allows me that freedom or that satisfaction.


Does everyone have access to this source code you mention? I assume you refer to OS4. Please clarify however.

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Trixie 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 16:55:32
#88 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2052
From: Czech Republic

@AmeegaGuy

Quote:
I assume you refer to OS4. Please clarify however.

Yes, Tony is a core OS4 developer. What's more, he's actually one of the few people on topic in this thread.

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kolla 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 21:41:55
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2043
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

people say they are coding HTML


And since HTML5, that is a reality.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 22-Dec-2021 23:30:33
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2136
From: Chicago, IL

@Trixie

tonyw is the man! I only wish OS 4.1 was updated more often.

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kolla 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 23-Dec-2021 11:28:58
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2043
From: Trondheim, Norway

@DiscreetFX

Just sign up as "uhm... developer" and get updates all the time - for free! :p

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OneTimer1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 23-Dec-2021 16:37:19
#92 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 747
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
I love NG beacuse it is the same Amiga as from Commodore only better beacuse faster.



Yes, AROS is great.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 23-Dec-2021 16:38:37
#93 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 747
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
These days I not only have access to all the soure code, I wrote some of it, and I understand how most of it works.


Thanks for advertising AROS.

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AmeegaGuy 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 23-Dec-2021 20:48:41
#94 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 95
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:
Yes, Tony is a core OS4 developer. What's more, he's actually one of the few people on topic in this thread.

So he comes from a position of privilege. He dislikes other platforms apparently including 3.x versions of AmigaOS because he did not have access to the source code. Now he has access to the OS4 source code so it is great. Golf clap.

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Trixie 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 23-Dec-2021 21:50:29
#95 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2052
From: Czech Republic

@AmeegaGuy

Quote:
So he comes from a position of privilege. He dislikes other platforms apparently including 3.x versions of AmigaOS because he did not have access to the source code. Now he has access to the OS4 source code so it is great.

No, Tony didn't say that he "dislikes other platforms". He explains why he prefers to use OS4, especially now that he is an OS developer and has access to the source code.

Myself, I'm not a core OS developer, and I don't have access to the source code. Yet I enjoy using OS4 and I think it is great. I don't believe you need to "come from a position of privilege" to like OS4, or any other system for that matter.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 23-Dec-2021 22:29:19
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2136
From: Chicago, IL

@Trixie

I enjoy OS 4.1 as well and have no access to devs or OS source code. It's a great update to AmigaOS and I wish it was updated more often.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 23-Dec-2021 at 10:29 PM.

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Trixie 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 24-Dec-2021 6:27:57
#97 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2052
From: Czech Republic

@DiscreetFX

Quote:
It's a great update to AmigaOS and I wish it was updated more often.

Yes, the OS4 development situation is unfortunate, and of course I wish things got straightened up next year. But what IMO brings fun to using an OS is applications, rather than system updates. And application development and porting hasn't come to a halt, despite the dogs fighting over the bone of OS control.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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terminills 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 26-Dec-2021 11:34:43
#98 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1411
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga




Quote:
Sure, ppcamiga1 is wrong about many things, but he is not always wrong. I don’t think there is anyone that is always right.



Nah pretty sure he's never been right about anything in his life.

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Hypex 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 28-Dec-2021 3:46:18
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10548
From: Greensborough, Australia

@All

So thought I'd chip in.

For me this goes back to earlier this century. I've used "NG" in the form of an AmigaOne since it was first produced. I don't really think anyone can appreciate or fully understand NG in this form if they haven't lived through it. As I've experienced Amiga people, that moved on in their computer life, but don't understand or see the point of NG; yet kept their Amiga around for good times. In my "NG" life, I didn't move on to the PC or Mac; I stayed with AmigaOS and then slowly brought other machines into my life like PPC Macs or PCs of some kind in order to be used for practical purposes. As a supplement.

Why I love NG? First, after Commodore's demise, it offered a solution. Many Amiga users waited years for anything to happen. Eventually it did, the AmigaOne, XE in my case. It wasn't anything to knock your socks off, nothing like the CU Amiga A/Box, and by the time it took to arrive it wasn't even an Amiga any more. Since implementing any kind of Amiga chipset would have been impractical. But it was here.

This offered a choice. For me it was give up on Amiga and embrace Mac, like the Gordon Harwoods ads encouraged me to do. Since the Mac, even at OS9, was the closest to the Amiga. Or buy an AmigaOne. I really wasn't interested in PCs and Doom didn't change my mind. I also didn't like the idea of emulation. Sure, I could continue my Amiga life in UAE, but developing stuff in an emulator just seemed pointless and not the same as having a dedicated machine for the purpose. I wanted a dedicated solution, not a dead end.

Now my AmigaOne could never replace my Amiga A1200, since it's the real deal with no replacement model, but it did take the place of my A1200. What I mean is, where once my A1200 was my main machine, the AmigaOne would take its place and be my main machine. Which it did. Being a "caseless computer" with no Commodore logo was a big change. But Commodore was no more and no one had saved them. And with them the Amiga as it had been was no more either. "It's Amiga Jim, but not as we know it."

The early AmigaOne years were the most exciting. This was due to the fact that the OS3 68K and C sources had been ported over the PPC and the core OS ran natively on PPC. This might not seem special these days but just using it first hand I found it worked very close. Except the UI elements like fonts and gadgets had been updated and other components had been brought more up to date. It was very close to AmigaOS 68K and internally they kept it close as well. Helped by the big endian PPC was the integrated 68K emulation. This really helped as it was was fun to see what games and software worked and what broke. Doing this testing was almost a game in itself.

Over time I built up a collection of 68K software. I even contributed my own solution to an existing idea of a sound driver simulator so OctaMED could play again. And then bit by the bug investigated what else could be done to bring more compatibility with other games and software. I also continued my own projects. Be that programming projects, playing with music or graphics. The hardware was more able than my A1200 to provide speed, 16 bit audio and 24 bit graphics. My A1200 really needed an upgrade and by the time I retired it, it had only an 68030@40Mhz, AGA and a drive tower. People say the cost of the AmigaOne, especially XE, was too expensive. Well, what were they comparing it too? Did they compare their last Amiga setup to a PC or Mac and found the Amiga cost less with more power? Not for me! My A1200 setup had cost me $2,500AUD overall and I wasn't left with much. My AmigaOne setup cost less. For around $2,000AUD I had a complete setup with 800Mhz CPU, 24-bit graphics and 16-bit audio as is. Ready to go for the next ten years.

The XE aged. Sams came and went. And then the X1000 was announced. This was some years down the track. It was good to have a new solid piece of hardware, but wasn't as exciting. Once a dual 1.8Ghz CPU was awesome, on the X1000 it was so so. I entered the beta test program, because it was the best value of all packages, plus I was keen to give input and report bugs. Compared to the XE, I don't think it's was as good value for money, taking price and performance into consideration. But the X1000 can still hold its own till this day. If only it didn't have all that boot lag.

I replaced my XE with my X1000 a few years back. Though it was sitting on the sidelines for too long. While I finished up my work on XE, no doubt delayed since I had somehow caught an interest in Linux somehow and improving the XE experience. I've considered an X5000, but it just doesn't look too far ahead of an X1000, and lacks AltiVec. Mind you, I'm not likely to do anything that directly uses it, except booting Linux, but I just like having it around. So it makes the X1000 seem special.

In the meantime, I've also embraced PC hardware like laptops and needed too when I was gifted one, so have expanded my horizons. When I'm not on OS4 I'm either using PPC or x86 Linux. Suppose I've become one those Amiga guys that ported over to Linux, just not full time. I avoid Windows at all costs. Windows is only for games and any tools that absolutely require it. Windows 10 is the most boring looking OS I have seen and keep wondering if the screen is one bit depth. I cannot fathom why the Linux guys keep copying it instead of creating a Linux themed window manger, so Ubuntu 10 on PPC beats your current Linux with looks any day of the week! What annoys me about Windows is the operation as even after all this time I find the file manager and general operation to be annoying and illogical. I won't go into it. I'll sign off with one example before I digress any further.

USB stick inserted in computer and boot:
Windows - Ignores and won't auto mount.
AmigaOS4: Detects and mounts!

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jPV 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 28-Dec-2021 7:17:42
#100 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 746
From: .fi

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@All

So thought I'd chip in.

For me this goes back to earlier this century. I've used "NG" in the form of an AmigaOne since it was first produced. I don't really think anyone can appreciate or fully understand NG in this form if they haven't lived through it. As I've experienced Amiga people, that moved on in their computer life, but don't understand or see the point of NG; yet kept their Amiga around for good times. In my "NG" life, I didn't move on to the PC or Mac; I stayed with AmigaOS and then slowly brought other machines into my life like PPC Macs or PCs of some kind in order to be used for practical purposes. As a supplement.


Yeah, I have a similar story and here's a clip of the post I recently wrote on another forum:

--- clip ---
3. What did you use after Commodore went bust, and the Amiga became harder to use as a daily driver ?

I just expanded my A1200 more! I bought a Blizzard 1230-IV accelerator in mid 90s, a multisync monitor to get better resolutions, added a CD-ROM drive on the table, towered the machine with a Zorro2 bus board, bougth a CyberVision 64/3D graphics card, bougth a used Blizzard 1260 with a SCSI-kit, added CD-RW and DAT drives and moooore HDs, got a Delfina Lite sound card and Hydra's network card, swapped the original Zorro2 board to MediatorZIV and ZorroIV bus boards, got Voodoo3/USB/TV etc cards, bigger monitors, external SCSI tower to fit even mmmoore mass storage devices, and so on

At one point in 90s I got a PC with Win98 for studies etc, but I didn't use it much at all... I rather found ways to use my Amiga for the studies... Final Writer with some math equation expansion was enough for some lab exercises etc.

So, I just didn't give up and was using my A1200 setup as a daily driver until 2004. At that point it started to feel a bit limited indeed, but luckily I was offered to buy a second hand Pegasos machine for a fair price, so I stepped into the next generation Amiga world. Suddenly there was way more raw processing power to watch movies and stuff that I wasn't able to do with my 68k Amiga. The whole system was also much more stable on both software and hardware side. It was also compatible with the software I was using on my RTG/AHI setup.. I just copied my installed software from my monsterous A1200 setup to MorphOS and continued to use them in a way snappier and stable environment with more possibilities.


4. What do you use now ?

Never surrender! I'm still using MorphOS setups as my daily drivers. Pegasos changed to a Mac mini in 2009, and I'm actually still using it as my main setup, pretty good value per years

I also have Powerbook and IBooks with MorphOS for portability, and couple PowerMac G5 setups for the future when I start to need more CPU power, but I've still sticked with the 1.5GHz Mac mini so far... silent and compact.

Of course I haven't avoided to have some other setups during the years either, who wouldn't need some mainstream setups occasionally. Currently I have Windows and Linux PCs which I use for some tasks, but mainly remotely with the RDesktop or SSH from my MorphOS setup.
--- clap ---


So, I love NG because it enabled me to continue using Amiga-compatible operating system with the software I prefer as my daily driver when 68k Amigas just got too limited and unstable hacky mess on both hardware and software side, with practically no progress on the OS side. I've been really happy for this and have now used NG setups for longer time than I ever used my real Amigas!

For me it's not that important which hardware I run the system until it runs what I like in a practical enough setup. The world went to pretty unified hardware (from users' point of view) since the wild 80s, it's not that important what you have under the hood anymore. I don't care that much if it's 68k, PPC, Intel, or whatever until it does its job. NG is about the software, not the hardware for me.

Last edited by jPV on 28-Dec-2021 at 07:19 AM.

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