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/  Forum Index
   /  MorphOS Software
      /  The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
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PosterThread
Chain-Q 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 11:19:46
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

@Zylesea

I don't think such posts are helpful to advocate for MorphOS, or convince anyone to its advantages. Yes, I also used to do such posts in the past, I try not to do so any more.

I'm fully involved in MorphOS , but also I accept that there might be several reasons why one might like to have OS4 instead, apart from the obvious emotional attachment to the Five Letter Magical Name. One quite trivial issue is lack of support of MorphOS for their hardware/platform (original A1, X1000, WinUAE, newer graphics cards in other machines, to name a few), that's not going to get solved in the very near future. MorphOS also doesn't offer OS4 software compatibility, and at this point the software base for these systems diverged quite far from each other, thanks to the different default UI kits and related policies. Also, in many cases no replacement software exists for one or another system. I also have this as feedback from people who actually and actively tried to migrate from OS4 to MorphOS. They lack some software to fully do the migration. And no doubt it would be the same, when someone for whatever reason would want to move from MorphOS to OS4. (Well, Wayfarer is one very trivial example in this case.)

So neither of these systems are trivial drop-in replacements of each other at this point. This might have been true 15 years ago when 95% of the software stack was identical and 68k Amiga based, but not any more.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

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Zylesea 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 18:24:40
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2236
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Chain-Q


I agree, but I think we are long post flame war red/blue this and that time. It is really only friendly invitation. An invitation to move something forward.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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Hans 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 0:55:58
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@Zylesea

Quote:
I think OS4 lags too far behind in many aspects. Better focus on *one* system instead of doing work twice and waste development resources. Hence, drop OS4, join MorphOS.

And MorphOS "lags too far behind" in other aspects.

While you may have intended this as a friendly invitation, it doesn't come across that way.

Comparing the two OSes objectively, each has a different set of strengths and flaws, and the systems are diverging in areas such as APIs.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 03-Sep-2022 at 01:05 AM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Hans 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 1:02:41
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@jacadcaps

Quote:

jacadcaps wrote:
@sananaman

You need an SDK with modern C++ support (covering most of Standard Library, and covering it in a way that things are actually compliant with the C++ standards). To get there, we've had to update the MorphOS' exec.library.

I've no reason to believe the same can be achieved on OS4 without modifying exec / kernel components, at least if you want decent performance.

All of the other dependencies are even already there (unchanged from Odyssey) or are relatively easy to port (compiles with minimal patches).


Isn't Wayfarer's GUI done using Objective-C? I think Sananaman is hoping for an AmigaOS 4 port of Wayfarer itself, rather than just WebKit. IIRC, OS4's GCC can compile Objective-C (I tried it once), but the Objective-C standard libraries are missing (including the MorphOS specific ones).

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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jacadcaps 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 20:27:49
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2007
Posts: 203
From: Canada

@Hans

Quote:
And MorphOS "lags too far behind" in other aspects.


Sure, just not in the areas needed to be able to run the most important app these days.

Quote:
Isn't Wayfarer's GUI done using Objective-C


Sure, but building a MUI area subclass without the use of Objective-C is a trivial task for anyone with a clue. Yes, that'd mean writing a separate UI for OS4, but hey... might as well go with Reaction then.

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amigakit 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 22:06:31
#26 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2444
From: www.amigakit.com


The MorphOS vs. OS4 days are long gone. In recent years Frank Mariak, Mark Olsen and other MorphOS devs have stepped in and provided invaluable Uboot and driver support for A-EON machines benefiting OS4. This help was much appreciated and not forgotten. We will always be open to working across the Amiga family for the benefit of this community.

_________________
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Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

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Hans 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 4-Sep-2022 2:50:44
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@jacadcaps

Quote:
Sure, just not in the areas needed to be able to run the most important app these days.

Obviously, or this thread wouldn't exist.

AmigaOS 4 is missing a developer like you, who is able and willing to do the work to make it happen. I'd give it a shot if I weren't so busy on other projects already. I did have a quick go at building WebKit last year, but didn't have the time to get it working.

Quote:
Sure, but building a MUI area subclass without the use of Objective-C is a trivial task for anyone with a clue.

Oh, so Objective-C is only used for an area sub-class?

Quote:
Yes, that'd mean writing a separate UI for OS4, but hey... might as well go with Reaction then.

Nah, better stick with MUI; it's got more classes and capabilities.

I'm not saying Reaction couldn't be used, but you'd be creating extra work for yourself in adding & extending its classes.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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t0lkien 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 4-Sep-2022 10:01:55
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Sep-2004
Posts: 154
From: SPAIN

@amigakit

That sounds really cool. Is there any project from you to support MorphOS in the near future?

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jacadcaps 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 5-Sep-2022 13:38:49
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2007
Posts: 203
From: Canada

@Hans

Quote:
Oh, so Objective-C is only used for an area sub-class?


Objective-C is used for all of the interfaces between WebKit and Wayfarer (and Iris, for that matter). That includes an area subclass, all of the settings, download handlers, errors, certificate info, etc. Unlike with Odyssey which had MUI classes deep inside WebKitLegacy source code, my port has full isolation between WebKit and a browser app. This makes it easy to build non-browser projects that happen to need Web rendering capabilities (like the mentioned email client). Again, you don't need all this.

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Bosanac 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 5-Sep-2022 16:20:10
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2022
Posts: 127
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Why spend your time and money on writing a clone of OS4 from scratch when it would be quicker and cheaper to pay the MorphOS devs to add any functionality that you feel is missing from OS4 (Maybe even paying for OS4Emu to be brought up to date to run OS4 binaries on MOS) and then just distributing MorphOS with your hardware thats been skinned to look like OS4?

There must be a reason Im not seeing, I just wonder what it is.

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t0lkien 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 0:24:02
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Sep-2004
Posts: 154
From: SPAIN

Version 4.1
Rebased to WebKitGTK 2.36.7
Updated EasyList AdBlocker database
Updated cURL and other libs

Jacadcaps in morphzone:
"Wayfarer 4.1 is now available for download. I've rebased to WebKitGTK 2.36.7. Since 2.36.8 was released only yesterday, you can expect 4.2 within a couple of days. Still, don't hold updating - 4.1 should fix several crashes inside base WebKit that got fixed in the WebKitGTK branch."

Last edited by t0lkien on 18-Sep-2022 at 12:25 AM.

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Mobileconnect 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 4:42:36
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 476
From: Unknown

I am the guy who donated to jacadaps to make his webkit patches open source

if someone out there wants to be paid to wrap them in a MUI class (or any BOOPSI class for that matter) for OS4 please get in touch privately.

_________________

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 10:02:33
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12283
From: Norway

@Mobileconnect

I believe has repeated many time, that AmigaOS4.1 SDK needs to support Thread Local Storage, TLS, until that happens, there is no point nagging about it.

_________________
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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 10:30:46
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12283
From: Norway

@Mobileconnect

Maybe something like?

offset = &(varName) - &firstVar;

// you need size of global space, and address of first address to global space.

get_var=*(auto *) (Task(NULL) -> TLS_address + offset);

(how it can be faked, maybe TLS_address can point to an process argument, or abuse user data address in process structure)..
anyhow its C++11 feature:

__declspec(thread) declarator

__declspec is some kind class, that allow you set and get from TLS.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/cpp/thread?view=msvc-170

Linux has the __thread keyword, maybe C++11 is not std.

https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Thread-Local.html

Can toy with idea a bit, technically every class operator new can increment thread storage space

looks like this docs, says alot about how works in Linux workd.

https://www.akkadia.org/drepper/tls.pdf

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2022 at 12:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2022 at 10:44 AM.

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Zylesea 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 14:13:10
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2236
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@t0lkien

As usual the update went smooth and fast - 4.1 just works.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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Hypex 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 15:37:51
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10700
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Bosanac

OS4Emu actually works. I'm not aware of the opposite for OS4. I actually did write a basic MOS runner for OS4, that I got working, but it might be next to useless as it only runs the old ELF commands. All modern applications use some newer ELF format. So MOS as that up it's sleeve still, it can run some OS4 applications. But MOS applications can't be ran on OS4.

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retro 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 22-Sep-2022 19:26:46
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1047
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Speaking of morphos.do Anyone know more about when wee will see more about ether smp or kernel/Memory protection or the native x64 version

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Hans 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 23-Sep-2022 7:24:38
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I believe has repeated many time, that AmigaOS4.1 SDK needs to support Thread Local Storage, TLS, until that happens, there is no point nagging about it.

There are patches in adtools for TLS, so it should be working. I've never tested it, though. Jacadcaps said you need kernel support for TLS if for decent performance, but basic TLS via GCC should be enough to at least get to work on porting.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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t0lkien 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 23-Sep-2022 14:13:53
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Sep-2004
Posts: 154
From: SPAIN

Wayfarer 4.2 with WebKit codebase updated to WebKitGTK 2.36.8 is out now!

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DiscreetFX 
Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0
Posted on 23-Sep-2022 15:05:12
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2209
From: Chicago, IL

@t0lkien

Awesome news, jacadcaps is the best.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

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