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PosterThread
Neuf 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 1-Aug-2022 20:23:50
#41 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

@Rob
A lot of people on this topic have let their imagination run away with themselves. Yes, System V54 will be a complete standalone system. Hyperion will have no say whatsoever in how its developed. V54 will have an entire new graphics system. Trevor has said that V54 will run on top of OS4 like Enhancer does now. In my view that statement can only be partly correct. The reason is this. OS4 is AmigaOS based.. V54 will have a conventional graphics system. It will have to not only bypass the graphics.lib, but also many Exec functions. It will also have to bypass much of the communications stack. I am not sure of how much else it needs to bypass. In short, it will need to take over the computer until you exit the system and revert back toOS4. This is very similar to the way the Toaster worked back in the day. It will in fact be a second operating system. To make it a fully independent OS it will need to replace kickstart, fill out a complete Exec replacement, a new USB stack, and a complete redoing of the communications stack among other things. It will use many of the components of Enhancer but in many cases they will operate differently. The design of these components have led to some controversy on this forum.

Using OS4 components will save Amigakit a whole bunch of money, and a great deal of time also. Inb my opinion,this is the best way forward for AmigaOS. This will eventuallly help to get rid of trolls like the Director of Hyperion. I don't know how far from making V54 a complete OS Amigakit is, but I'm assuming he isn't that far away.
I am hoping that when V54 ships, bugs will be at a minimum. I expect that when people use the Shell inOS4 they might be a little confused for a time. So, I'm wishing Amigakit and his team the best of luck with this very complex project

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V8 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 1-Aug-2022 23:16:34
#42 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 38
From: Unknown

@Neuf

They don't need to rewrite all that much code. Only the code that is directly owned and controlled by Hyperion, which is not all that much. It is certainly a viable project.

Exec, Trevor already owns it. They already own a graphics stack. USB and network stacks, neither are owned by Hyperion so just a matter of licencing it from the owners. Same with most other components. Just buy or licence it from the owners.

Reaction needs to be rewritten though, or just switch everything away from reaction to something else. Maybe bunch of command line uitilities in DOS needs to be rewritten too. But the majority of "OS4" is not controlled by Hyperion and they can licence those components just fine.


Of course, just switching to MOS would be quicker and probably saner but after being burnt so badly by Hyperion they probably never want to rely on external parties for development of core product ever again.

Last edited by V8 on 01-Aug-2022 at 11:20 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 1-Aug-2022 23:33:14
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12197
From: Norway

@V8

They selling hardware, they want to be control of the development of drivers, and changes to take advantage of the hardware, lets say they use MorphOS team, they might say NO, because of X,Y,Z, or its not a priority.

Another thing people don’t think about, parts of MorphOS is open sourced.
So maybe don’t need to be one or the other, it can be a combination.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2022 at 11:36 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2022 at 11:36 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2022 at 11:34 PM.

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tonyw 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 2-Aug-2022 0:31:49
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3229
From: Sydney (of course)

@V8

Quote:

Reaction needs to be rewritten though, or just switch everything away from reaction to something else.


They might simply revert to using MUI, which is also pretty mature these days.

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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Matt3k 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 2-Aug-2022 14:49:04
#45 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2004
Posts: 81
From: NY

@V8

"Of course, just switching to MOS would be quicker and probably saner but after being burnt so badly by Hyperion they probably never want to rely on external parties for development of core product ever again."

In one sense this makes sense, but in the other MorphOS already supports the x5000 hardware. Seems to me that the relationship is already somewhat defined and the coders are already a known quantity and identified as good folks... The risk/reward of working together has to be a known quantity.

I get it if you've been in a bad relationship, you are gun shy. Makes sense. But with so much to be gained, it seems at least worth pursing (if it hasn't been done recently).

Agree, that MorphOS is saner. If nothing else, but to offer the users a better operating system experience. Seems like a win/win.

Again, I'm not in the know and only Trevor and the MorphOS Team would know how this would even work but in theory it makes sense to me.

Last edited by Matt3k on 02-Aug-2022 at 05:13 PM.
Last edited by Matt3k on 02-Aug-2022 at 03:05 PM.

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Neuf 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 2-Aug-2022 17:39:02
#46 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

@Matt3k

I like Morphos a lot. The problem for me is that I no longer have any hardware that it will run MorphOS. I sent my last old Macs to the recycling bin some time ago. I will not be buying an X5000. There are some still available but A-EON bio longer sells them. They are a discontinued product. My hope was that Team Morphos and A-EON would cooperate on a new hardware project. This apparently is no longer possible. I should also say at this time that I know Amigakit has done a lot of testing with Morphos and Wayfarer. That has now been concluded. For people who have the appropriate hardware it may be a good choice to run MorphOS.

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 2-Aug-2022 19:56:33
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6414
From: UK

@Neuf

Quote:
I will not be buying an X5000. There are some still available but A-EON bio longer sells them.


Fair enough that you don't want to buy a X5000 but discontinued? Really? The X5000/40 model had just been launched (not that you'd know it as it has to be requested seemingly behind the counter) so hardly end of line other than the CPU is no longer supported by NXP! AmigaKit no longer sell it presumably because they don't want to renew their OEM license for AmigaOS with Hyperion.

_________________
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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Matt3k 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 2-Aug-2022 21:03:58
#48 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2004
Posts: 81
From: NY

@BigD

Where can you purchase the newly launched X5000/40?

I might look into that! Anyone have bench marks with running MorphOS against a PowerMac 2.3Ghz? Lost one cpu on the PM and had to switch them. Might be cool to get a dedicated hardware MB, it has to run cooler that the PM!!! lol.

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Neuf 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 2-Aug-2022 22:02:05
#49 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

@BigD

I haven't heard anything about a product launch. I do know that Amigakit bundled his remaining stock and sold them to a distributor. This is what Amedia is selling. They haven't been produced for many years. The Amiga Developer teams used some for some advanced testing. I understand there are about two dozen X5020's left and about 40 or so 5040's left. This is a product discontinuance sale. Don't expect any discount on price though.

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 0:50:52
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6414
From: UK

@Neuf

If there are "40 or so" 5040s for sale this still represents the first time they've been sold outside of the beta testers' channels. This is the very definition of a 'consumer product launch'. Only in Amiga World would a product have both its launch and discontinuance sale at the same time!

I guess by Amiga logic the A1222 Plus has "already launched" because the beta testers have had machines for years!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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redfox 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 2:05:00
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1950
From: Canada

@Neuf

I am not sure what to think about the speculations made by you and others on this thread. If the X5000's are disappearing into the sunset and the A1222plus is frozen in limbo, then why are the AEON development team working so hard on Enhancer 2.2 and "System 54" ???

What is the hardware target for "System 54" ???

---
redfox

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redfox 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 2:39:00
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1950
From: Canada

@TRIPOS

My OS4 system is very old now, but it still works well for my needs.

MicroA1 with IBM PPC 750 GX CPU, 256 MB RAM,
onboard ATI Radeon 7000 graphics and 32 MB graphics RAM.

AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 with hotfix
plus some bits from AEON Enhancer Software V1.5

After alot of tweeking and tender care, my system is very stable.

We will see what the future brings, but my little system has survived all public OS4 updates from OS4 pre-release times until today. Sometimes, over the years, I have felt like I am an alpha-tester trying to solve yet another issue, but my system is working just fine now.


redfox

Last edited by redfox on 03-Aug-2022 at 02:43 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 03-Aug-2022 at 02:40 AM.

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rzookol 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 11:37:18
#53 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Oct-2005
Posts: 284
From: Poland, Lublin

@redfox

Anything below 1.5Ghz is barely usable these days

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Am!ga 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 12:18:31
#54 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Oct-2016
Posts: 20
From: Strawberry Fields

@Matt3k

Quote:

Matt3k wrote:
IMHO - Why not just use Morphos? (Sorry meant to put this under the x86 thread, for those who wanted AOS4 ported to X86...)


Because it is not Amiga

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 14:22:52
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6414
From: UK

@Am!ga

Neither is Ben Hermans on recent conduct and yet he holds the keys!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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OlafS25 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 15:52:03
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6092
From: Unknown

@Am!ga

what is amiga?

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 17:07:45
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6414
From: UK

@OlafS25

Trevor's shoes informing a 'Think Different' Show All Files> 'Snapshot ALL' way of computing?!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Neuf 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 17:50:36
#58 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 45
From: Unknown

@redfox

The initial target for V54 according to Trevor is the X5000.Hans has thrown the cat among the pigeons by suggesting a port to ARM would be a good idea. He has made some comments on this.

Why are they working so hard on Enhancer and V54? The reason is very simple. OS4 is obsolete. It may work well enough for you, but for many people it doesn't.

About the ARM port I can say this. I have compared the Pi 400 with the A1222. They both have the same graphics system and the performance appears to be about equal. Classic Apps which would run on emulation on both systems run about the same speed on both systems. I can base this on Sysinfo for both systems. I haven't seen any AIBB numbers for either system. Furthermore, the Pi beats the A1222 on price by quite a bit. In my opinion the Pi 400 would be a quite good alternative to the A1222. I expect that this will be the main way I will use Amiga apps. I haven't bought one yet but expect to do so shortly. The downside to the Pi is that something like OS4 does not yet run onthePI.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 18:12:31
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2186
From: Chicago, IL

@Neuf

It would be really funny if one day System 54 ran on Apple Silicon (ARM Macs) since MorphOS runs on PPC Macs.

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 18:30:22
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6414
From: UK

@Neuf

This is a bad comparison because the Pi400 exists whereas A-EON still can't figure out how to mass produce A1222 Plus machines! The Vampires, UnAmigas, Misters, Pi400s and THEA500 Minis all win by default because they are available! If AmigaOS is THE killer app for you (it is JUST an OS stupid) then you've missed something!!!

Last edited by BigD on 03-Aug-2022 at 06:31 PM.

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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