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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 8-Sep-2022 19:42:40
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@Karlos

Many of chipset register do not support 31/32bit.
The blitter can in theory do it, however.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Sep-2022 at 07:48 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Sep-2022 at 07:45 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 9-Sep-2022 9:35:29
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Karlos

Many of chipset register do not support 31/32bit.
The blitter can in theory do it, however.

That only applies to the original chipset. (Win)UAE could do whatever it wants regarding the chipset implementation, so even using the full 32-bit address space.

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Hypex 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 10-Sep-2022 16:10:59
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10835
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Karlos

Quote:
It can have up to 1GB of "chip ram". It's a new type mapped into a given address space on the system. I don't know if the emulated custom chips can address it all or not, but there's still the option for 8MB of vanilla chip separately from the new kind. It has helped me with some applications though, like PPaint which runs out of chip ram even in RTG for some reason.


Sounds like some kind of graphics memory. I can understand with a custom RTG driver. But making a new type of chip RAM goes beyond what an Amiga does when I thought the point of running UAE was to emulate an Amiga.

1GB is certainly beyond what an Amiga could access. Given chip RAM starts at location 0 that would conflict with all the CIA and hardware locations. It could reserve the lower 1GB as chip RAM and map fast RAM above that so the chip area has a 1GB window.

Quote:
Back to the TKG build, due to some illegal memory access bugs, the included version tries to access an address in the region 0x10000000 - 0x10ffffff, on startup, which will bus error if there's nothing there. Some accelerator cards put there memory there so it's ok (illegality of the access aside) and will run. UAE puts this new memory type in the same place and this prevents the crash..


Then what's next is to find where that space is coming from. If it's not hardcoded from a bug then it likely would be passed by the memory manager. Else it's a rather specific location.

Can you isolate it in the UAE debugger? I use FS-UAE which has some kind of debugging ability. But after trying to enable the options I gave up trying to get it working a while back.

Aside from that you could try a debugger. It's not C I take it so CodeProbe won't do? Perhaps time consuming but an ASM debugger could help. When you get to the line. Or simply run it within as some do pick up bad access.

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 10-Sep-2022 18:14:08
#124 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3149
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Hypex

This new ChipRAM is mapped at 0x10000000 in UAE. At least for me. It definitely seems to work with programs expecting to put graphics and sound in chip ram so I'm assuming that the emulated chips support it.

Regarding the illegal memory access I think some progress has been made. I've barely had a chance to look at the code for at least a week tbh.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 11-Sep-2022 18:02:34
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@Karlos

I expect memory to be allocated at lower addresses first, until run out of 2MB chip you wont be using the 0x1000000 memory.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 11-Sep-2022 18:04:50
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Yes, but old programs won’t know about new hardware registers (memory maped IO as called in the real world), and will fail when using old registers with new address space.

All your doing is creating incompatibilities.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Sep-2022 at 06:05 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 11-Sep-2022 20:27:34
#127 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3149
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@NutsAboutAmiga

I guess that would apply unless you tried to allocate any block bigger than the largest free in that region. UAE implemented the "conjugal jollies and free beer" 8MB jumper for years already.

Anyway it's all academic at this point. All allocations in TKG are to MEMF_ANY except for the display and protracker module which explicitly need MEMF_CHIP.

Last edited by Karlos on 11-Sep-2022 at 08:29 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 1:49:43
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Yes, but old programs won’t know about new hardware registers (memory maped IO as called in the real world), and will fail when using old registers with new address space.

All your doing is creating incompatibilities.

There are NO new hardware registers. Just additional chip ram allocated on the ZorroIII address space, as Karlos reported.

For applications it is, and SHOULD be, enough to just allocate it as MEMF_CHIP.

If some application doesn't work because it makes assumptions on the location of the chip memory (e.g.: should be at the very beginning of the address space. And the address should be in the 24 bits address space), then it's because the developer is the usual complete idiot which didn't followed the guidelines...

Last edited by cdimauro on 18-Sep-2022 at 04:37 AM.

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 10:40:47
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3149
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@cdimauro

Personal Paint is a good example, although I don't understand why it still needs chip ram when running in RTG mode. It seems like a bug to me.

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cdimauro 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 19:08:10
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@cdimauro

Personal Paint is a good example,

Of goodly or badly written application? It's not clear to me, because of the below issue that you reported.
Quote:
although I don't understand why it still needs chip ram when running in RTG mode. It seems like a bug to me.

It looks like.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 22:07:39
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@Karlos

Dpaint5 is banging chipset, its not 100% system friendly, I believe it needs Blitzen and Ciaagient maybe, to work on AmigaONE. it might depend on blitter for polygon operation.

Anyhow DPaint5 was always a bit buggy, Dpaint4 was my go to program, then switched to PPaint as that most system friendly program.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2022 at 10:10 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Sep-2022 at 10:09 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 22:31:22
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

Nothing wrong about banging the chipset, that is what it’s there for. It sucks that there is no RTG alternative to DPaint banging the chipset for animation. Well, there are no good, system friendly anim players for RTG either, all the good ones are banging the chipset for some strange reason.

OS 3.2.1 comes with much improved anim datatypes, so it is now possible to view anims as slideshows with Multiview without much garble and crashes. But it’s a matter of seconds per frame rather than frames per second…

Last edited by kolla on 17-Sep-2022 at 10:34 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 22:39:41
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Karlos

Sounds like you’re not using correct blitting library.
What does the BLITLIBS line in your settings file say?

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 17-Sep-2022 23:14:30
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3149
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kolla

You may well be right given I've lifted the whole thing from my old HD. It would be ironic if I'd had it set that way even while I was using RTG

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cdimauro 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 4:43:57
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Karlos

Dpaint5 is banging chipset, its not 100% system friendly,

Wrong. You can bang the hardware AND be 100% system friendly IF, AND ONLY IF, you... follow the guidelines!

Specifically:
- you FIRST ask the o.s. to OWN the Blitter (because that's what DPaint is using);
- AFTER that you WAIT for the Blitter (because there might be a work-in-progress operation);
- THEN you could do whatever you want with the Blitter (bug, again, FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES!);
- and FINALLY you RETURN the allocated resource to the o.s..

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 8:36:08
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@cdimauro

No you can't on AmigaONE, no chipset, unless you emulate with bitzzen and/or ciaagint or something like that. anyhow probley not safe, as 0xDFF000 can not be reserved.

System friendly means API based on AmigaOS4.x, on AmigaOS3.x it might mean check resources first call OwnBitter() etch.

i created libblitter.library so nice frendly alternative why to call the blitter.

https://github.com/khval/Libblitter.library

If only there was 68k counterpart, it won’t help a lot, but patch hunk files, to use that, might solve alot.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2022 at 08:53 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2022 at 08:37 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 8:46:47
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@kolla

PPaint is pritty good.
(at least if your going to use it in a porgram that support RTG screen mode id's)

Screen mode id numbers used to be simple, then it got complicated.

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cdimauro 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 8:48:32
#138 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

No you can't on AmigaONE, no chipset, unless you emulate with bitzzen and/or ciaagint or something like that.

I don't see the problem: DPaint is an Amiga software which... requires an Amiga to work!

AmigaOnes are NOT Amigas.
Quote:
anyhow probley not safe, as 0xDFF000 can not be reserved.

I don't see why this memory space cannot be reserved.
Quote:
System friendly means API based on AmigaOS4.x, on AmigaOS3.x it might mean check resources first call OwnBitter() etch.

See above: DPaint is an Amiga software and uses... Amiga o.s. APIs.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 8:56:27
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
AmigaOnes are NOT Amigas.


Maybe they are more like Dracos?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Sep-2022 at 09:59 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Sep-2022 10:09:58
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
AmigaOnes are NOT Amigas.


Maybe they are more like Dracos?

Let's say "similar". Dracos wasn't an Amiga (even by Commodore's definition of Amiga), so that's ok.

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