@Karlos

Tried RTG version directly on AmigaOS4 with Petunia JIT 68k to see if maybe works now without AGA required and it loads and ends with error:

"misc.resource failed to load"

Any clue what next to try?

RTG version runs with more that 20 fps average full screen on AmigaOS4/PPC JIT EUAE under (AmigaOS 3.2.2). This is nearly 2x faster on the same system compared to AGA only version under emulation. Major speedup. The system is equivalent like 68040/40 MHz.

Tested RTG version on A1200 with BlizzardPPC 68LC040/25 MHz and BVision (CyberGFX) but only about 6 fps on full screen. Dont know if this is expected for this configuration. It runs on AmigaOS 3.2.2 and 256 MB RAM. Will test more.

-dooz

Last edited by dooz on 05-Jun-2023 at 07:06 AM.

@dooz

It would be useful to know more.

Are you running the original T17 game or are you running the Karlos-tkg mod?

How does the speed compare to the WHDL slave for the same game? This has a basic FPS counter built in too.

How is the frame rate affected by various combinations of the following options:

2/3 size (press F10 to toggle)
1x2 render mode (press F9 to toggle)
Simple wall lighting (press F8 to toggle)

For reference, when I started the mod in 96/97 or so, I also ran a 68040/25 (Apollo 1240/AGA). Fullscreen was not an option then, the entire thing was designed at 2/3 size.

Also note, F7 cycles through a bunch of frame limits, so be careful to not press that.

Finally, if you run the devmode build, you can do various things to assess the impact on frame rate using the following keys

E: disable simple shaded walls
R: disable Gouraud shaded walls
T: disable basic bitmaps
Y: disable glare bitmaps
U: disable additive transparent bitmaps
I: disable bumped bitmaps
O: disable polygon models

G: disable floor/ceilings
Q: disable framebuffer clear (the buffer is cleared to grey when turning off any combination of walls and ceilings for clarity but Q will suppress this for measurement purposes as there is not normally a clear performed).

N: disable enemy attacks. You'll need this if you want to test render performance in some scene without getting mauled.

You can turn off everything for some given sceneand then test each graphic option in turn and use the FPS data to assess the relative impact of each.

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Additional. The misc.resource is used when allocating the serial port resources. This is needed for two player mode.

I'm thinking that this should probably be deferred until there's actually a need.

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Mod update:

I've just merged the work in progress after removing what I hope is the last of the defunct cobblestone textures from all the levels.

I've also included all the modifications to date, replaced the launcher with one that asks you which engine to use and included all four of the latest engine builds.

Happy bug hunting...

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@Karlos



Quote:

[...] Tried RTG version directly on AmigaOS4 with Petunia JIT 68k to see if maybe works now without AGA required and it loads and ends with error: "misc.resource failed to load" [...] Any clue what next to try?

Same issue on MorphOS too :/

For sure the game should load as with the old RTG patch at least I could get into the game (till it froze a couple of seconds afterwards).

Anyway, to strip it down (remove the serial support) pls?

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 06-Jun-2023 at 08:33 PM.

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@Cool_amigaN

It's too metal bashing still to run on OS4 or MorphOS unless running on classic where the hardware exists to be banged.

Removing the requirement for misc.resource would only kick the problem further into the long grass I expect. Besides which, two player mode actually works and I'm not keen to scupper that.

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@Karlos

NallePuh might make it work, it does fix a few issues.
But we need too make a misc resource, to get the game going.
Maybe rs232 can be emulated as well.

Maybe it's better to replace it add TCP/IP support instead?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jun-2023 at 12:13 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jun-2023 at 11:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jun-2023 at 11:53 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Karlos [...] Maybe it's better to replace it add TCP/IP support instead?

Well, though that sounds like a universal solution, I suspect that would be a great hustle.

Hope it can be achieved eventually in the long run.

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 08-Jun-2023 at 07:21 PM.

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Mentlegen! May I remind you that the game needs to remain playable on a 68030/50MHz.

The game does not implement a true client server model in two player mode. Each computer is calculating the exact same game state and synchronised via the serial link. Consequently, the game for both is basically limited to the performance of the slower machine.

Assuming for a moment that it was trivial to replace this, a TCP/IP stack introduces significant latency, potentially worse than the direct serial. Ideally you'd want a proper server client model and adopt the UDP style approach from quakeworld onwards that allows machines to not be exactly in sync.

If you want an all singing all dancing NG version with true network multiplayer and hardware accelerated visuals, you better start coding it now.

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@Karlos

Through emulation one could perhaps use kaillera

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@Karlos

Quote:

..... If you want an all singing all dancing NG version with true network multiplayer and hardware accelerated visuals, you better start coding it now

Thats the reason i would prefer an modern Quake (1 or 2) version with the Levels ported ..... would fix all network/HW-accel problems .... (and can be played on Win/Mac/Linux machines too .... like the AB 3D conversion Osiris)

Regards

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@R-TEAM

That's a great idea. All the assets are available already, so why not give it a go? For myself, working on the original game more interesting now, mostly to see "what could've been" rather than recreating it in technology that was out of reach for the Amiga in 1996. Sure we got Quake soon after but, as excellent as the id technology was (and indeed still is), it was designed with a different hardware envelope in mind and it was an unplayable slideshow on anything less than an 060. I played it on PPC soon after and ended up making mods for that (mostly behaviour changes) and stopped playing both AB3D games because I'd gone full RTG.

Revisiting it has been a blast. To me, AB3D2 was a swansong: the most technically advanced FPS engine ever created for the Amiga (at least in 1996). Yet it had to be rushed or it wouldn't have been released, and that's where it was let down: a flawed, unfinished love letter to the Amiga. One that maybe we can write the epilogue for.

Last edited by Karlos on 10-Jun-2023 at 02:17 PM.
Last edited by Karlos on 09-Jun-2023 at 09:46 AM.

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@Karlos

For me in 1996 AB3D2 was one of many things
that show it is time to drop AGA and switch to better graphics.

@ppcamiga1

Why? AGA was the least of it's problems. Do you really think it was slow just because it ran on AGA?

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@Karlos

Neo-Amiga PowerPC hardware doesn't have AGA.

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@Hammer

There is no "neo Amiga PowerPC" hardware. There are PPC machines that run PPC native evolutions of the operating system.

The only Amiga hardware with PPC processors are classic machines with aftermarket PPC accelerator boards.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with NG. I just don't understand the obsession with making 68K software PPC native when said systems already run system friendly 68K software perfectly well.

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@Hammer

Well, if AGA was any good every company (AMD, Nvidia, Intel) be lining up to license or replicate the technology, if you read few post up you notice that FPS increased by adding support for RTG. The AmigaONE are more modern designs, sure that comes with few problems.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jun-2023 at 05:19 PM.

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@Karlos

I don’t think anyone cares if it’s a 68K or PPC binary as long as it works without a hitch… running things in EUAE is a lesser experience, in my opinion.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

The biggest problem with PPC is PPC. It's become everything it was supposed to save the platform and it's dependence on 68K from: Obsolete, underpowered, niche and hugely expensive.

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@Karlos

ARM was not ready, back then, it had like dip in the market.
Acron computers had ARM.
In the mobile market you had the MIPS and XScale CPU’s for a period,
and after a while WindowsMobile was pushed out of the market,
and ARM returned. Goolge laptops using ARM chips like Chrome book, it was slow got negative reviews. it was around 2008 really started to happen for ARM.

PowerPC was established on Macintosh as early as 1995’s and we got it late in 1998 or something, but then Commodore was bankrupt no one can do anything with the OS, as result we end up with WarpOS and PowerUP solutions, to be frank was pretty horrible, because of the context switches, and also because so few things benefited from it, only libraries and datatypes. Macintosh did little bit better by employing a 68k emulator as MacOS extension, but little of OS was native and think it was early days of emulation, MacOS users had to wait until 1999 to get MacOS9 full native PowerPC support, during that transition Apple was almost bankrupted, IMac and Mac Minis using PowerPC gave Apple new life in 1999 and early 2000’s.

I really don’t see this playing out any different.

Going x86 was not option because we wanted backwards compatibility (sure Apple did it, but they had a lot more resources).

Amiga Anywhere was the solutions announced by Amiga Inc, it did not run AmigaOS software, nor did own the technology they built on as result they had to make AA2.

https://amigang.com/amiga-anywhere/

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jun-2023 at 06:04 PM.

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