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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 11-Nov-2023 12:46:55
#521 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

And this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px6yZGYyqb8

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fishy_fis 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 13-Nov-2023 14:34:25
#522 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2134
From: Australia

@Karlos

Looking really good and it showcases the engine better than the original game ever did.
Not a criticism of the original, Im actually a fan of the game, but its a shame time restraints never gave Andy Clitheroe an opportunity to show it off properly.
Ive always wondered if a decent approximation of Quake could be done with it. With what I know of the engine and its restrictions (granted this isn't a lot) there'd have to be a decent amount of "nips and tucks", but these can often go a long way if thought is given to them.
Would be fun (for my tastes) to get something resembling Quake running on an '030 even at something like (number picked from a hat) %60 screensize.

What hardware is that 1st video running on by the way? Im assuming a "real" 680x0 cpu?
The performance has obviously increased vs the commercial release as some of those framerates are beyond what I remember even a higher clocked '060 being capable of, but that appears to have lead to greater frametime inconsistency.
Not a complaint though, just an observation. I also simply find this sort of stuff interesting.
Id hazard a guess the times the framereate is lower its just not benefiting from changes so it's not like anything is lost, but it does make the inconsistencies stand out more when the ceiling is higher than it was.

Anyway, good work. Watching all the work around the engine changes, the updates to the editor and your mod has been one of more exciting things for me Amiga software wise in recent times, so thanks for your contribution in that :)
Id still like to get involved with some graphics at some point, but just when I thought my life had settled down a bit Ive ended up in a bit of a messy separation and somehow ended up 2 teenaged boys as part of the separation package. Kids who aren't mine. Or even hers (she was their guardian, but not mother).
If there was 30 hours in a day Id be a happy man.

Damn, sod it. I'm gonna sacrifice a few hours sleep to learn more about moding the game.
I got all motivated in the process of writing this post :)

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BigD 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 13-Nov-2023 15:09:32
#523 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7222
From: UK

@fishy_fis

This is a PiStorm32/060 type game even with RTG enabled. An 030 is IMHO too weak for this even with optimisations!

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 13-Nov-2023 21:47:59
#524 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

Performance wise, the current engine with the original T17 game assets is significantly improved over the original T17 version and even the WHDL slave that followed. Amipal has a video comparing an earlier iteration and it was comfortably ahead on 68060.*

My mod takes that performance edge away somewhat, due to the increase in level details. It's also more memory hungry because I've altered the engine to allow it to load optional level specific graphics in order to make a more compelling mod.

I'm presently developing everything in WinUAE (on Linux) because it's a fast and productive workflow. My actual 1200 is too fragile to risk for this right now.

*There's still a high level performance win for the taking. I was recently investigating an issue that results in things being drawn that shouldn't be visible, which are then drawn over. I believe this is down to a defect but pinning it down has been tricky. I do intend to go back to that later but I took some time out and wanted to actually work on the mod for a bit when I got back to it.

Last edited by Karlos on 13-Nov-2023 at 09:56 PM.
Last edited by Karlos on 13-Nov-2023 at 09:48 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 3:29:05
#525 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2134
From: Australia

@BigD

Not really.
And it depends on if youre comparing to pc standards or Amiga standards. Tennish fps is achievable on a higher end '030, which by Amiga standards isnt too bad, and that would be when running something with significantly better visuals than what is typical of an Amiga fps.

You also seem to have *completely* missed the point of such an exercise (if you have to ask, or comment about its requirements then I dont think you'll ever understand the point).
I know the game has high requirements. I played it with RTG about 15 years ago, and on hardware muuuuuch faster than a pistorm offers. Simply playing the game isnt the point though.

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 8:28:43
#526 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@fishy_fis

50MHz 68030 https://youtu.be/ntKJaZqea8k?si=f1RgJ6QRe9FtOZ-I

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BigD 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 16:23:55
#527 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7222
From: UK

@fishy_fis

Quote:
You also seem to have *completely* missed the point of such an exercise (if you have to ask, or comment about its requirements then I dont think you'll ever understand the point). I know the game has high requirements. I played it with RTG about 15 years ago, and on hardware muuuuuch faster than a pistorm offers. Simply playing the game isnt the point though.


Karlos is adding new textures, 3D models for weapons and pickup items and tweaking the levels to make a better game. The engine currently draws some areas that the player can't see so some speed optimisation is possible. However, most of Karlos' improvements add to the graphical overhead so IMHO to get a better game we are moving towards 060 and Pistorm hardware with RTG for a good experience. If you want a faster version of the original game then fine but that game is IMHO unfinished and in no way on par with Quake. The Karlos version is getting there!

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 17:43:31
#528 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

I'll just leave this here:

https://youtu.be/vDap2q5vef4

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 18:57:24
#529 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@BigD

For the record, I'm not aiming to make it worse, performance wise. The game has always really been an 060 title in practise, even if I did muddle through with an 040/25MHz

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BigD 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 20:16:07
#530 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7222
From: UK

@Karlos

I know but a faster 030 build of the original version of the game seems a bit pointless at this point! Well done for the tweaks you've made!

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 21:56:59
#531 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:

I know but a faster 030 build of the original version of the game seems a bit pointless at this point


Why? I don't see what's wrong in making it faster. It won't help those on PiStorm machines that are already maxed out but I remember it only just being playable on my 040. Anything to make it go faster can only be a good thing.

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agami 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 14-Nov-2023 23:25:20
#532 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1511
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Karlos

Quote:
Karlos wrote:
@BigD

Quote:
BigD wrote:

I know but a faster 030 build of the original version of the game seems a bit pointless at this point

Why? I don't see what's wrong in making it faster. It won't help those on PiStorm machines that are already maxed out but I remember it only just being playable on my 040. Anything to make it go faster can only be a good thing.

Nothing wrong with making things generally faster. Which is to say that as long as the speed improvements for 030 machines spill over to produce speed improvements for 040 and above.

Without solid numbers on % of players on 030, its hard to justify any 030-only optimizations.

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BigD 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 15-Nov-2023 10:17:42
#533 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7222
From: UK

@agami

I think getting a stripped back 030 optimised version without improved 3D models etc should not detract from general improvements and optimisations for 040/060 machines. If it becomes playable on an 030 with a reduced window size then great but that shouldn't be the primary aim! An 040/25 is more realistic as a minimum spec target IMHO.

Last edited by BigD on 15-Nov-2023 at 10:19 AM.

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 15-Nov-2023 11:20:10
#534 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@BigD

I would say that the 040/25 is a minimum requirement for my mod, because that's what I had when I started it. Not everyone is going to want to play the mod, some will want the authentic 1996 release and being able to play that at an acceptable speed on the hardware that was originally advertised for it (blood flies faster in a blizzard, etc) is a worthwhile goal IMO.

Although my mod absolutely depends on the latest engine build (and includes it for that reason), the two are separate projects.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Nov-2023 19:30:54
#535 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 878
From: Unknown

@Karlos

Quote:


I would say that the 040/25 is a minimum requirement for my mod, ...


IMR games like AB3D ran very fast on a 030/50, the Chip RAM access was much better then on a 040/060 and this was one of the key factor when running such games on the Amiga.

An other possibility was using a GFX card, that gave you some advantage over AGA Amigas.

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 18-Nov-2023 19:35:37
#536 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@OneTimer1

AB3D ran fast in 030. AB3D2, not so much

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Karlos 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 20-Nov-2023 19:55:37
#537 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3886
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

Playthrough of remastered level B. Other than any bug fixes, this is the finished level.

https://youtu.be/y4jdwHhF-bQ

Contains spoilers if you intend to play it.

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BigD 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 21-Nov-2023 9:37:34
#538 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7222
From: UK

@OneTimer1

Quote:
IMR games like AB3D ran very fast on a 030/50, the Chip RAM access was much better then on a 040/060 and this was one of the key factor when running such games on the Amiga.


Yep, more than fast enough to complete the game! The higher frame rate with the feeling of fluidity and momentum was night and day compared to just an 020 with fast ram. The the 030/50 combo was also fine for ADoom with Doom1.wad however Doom 2 was a bit sluggish with the bigger arenas.

Last edited by BigD on 21-Nov-2023 at 09:52 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 21-Nov-2023 9:55:10
#539 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7222
From: UK

@OneTimer1

AB3D2 definitely needs an 060, PiStorm or Vampire IMHO.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Updated Alien Breed 3D 2
Posted on 21-Nov-2023 20:37:46
#540 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 878
From: Unknown

@BigD @Karlos


> AB3D ran fast in 030. AB3D2, not so much

> AB3D2 definitely needs an 060, PiStorm or Vampire IMHO.

So they must have concentrated on other things, maybe this is why Karlos could do so much useful changes on light and shadow effects. I wouldn't be surprised if they where much better in AB3D 2 compared to AB3D.

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