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Poll : Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Yes, I would Join! £30
Yes, for less
Maybe
No
Bad idea, I have a better one....
Pancakes!
 
PosterThread
MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 8:27:16
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 959
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

See, THIS is the kind of thread that ABSOLUTELY requires



ZORRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Every 20th post.

Brace for some intense padding.





/MEGA!

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Turrican3 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 9:37:45
#22 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 368
From: Italy

@BigD

I don't know about Spanish but I can confirm CAGA works perfectly fine (?!) in the Italian language as well!

Perhaps getting rid of the starting C would be a good idea, after all Commodore hasn't had anything to do with Amiga since it went bankrupt.

Of course then you'll have to explain the difference between the Alliance and the last chipset produced but given the current state of affairs I'd argue it would be a very minor issue. :D

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amigang 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 11:14:10
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1873
From: Cheshire, England

@agami

Quote:
What problems is it actually trying to solve


Well as an example, the little NWAG show/meeting hadn't happened for a while (partly due to Covid) but also to find a suitable location to host us. It only happened thanks to one member putting up money (£75) to host the event, he did charge £3 entry but i don't think they broke even.

Its only largely thanks to Trevor / A-EON that some events are able to happen as big as they are thanks to Sponsorship, let say he leave the scene, would Amiwest / Amiga Germany / Amiga Ireland be able to host such a large event.

Now you could argue if these events dont pay for themselves what the point, let them die off, but I think that would be a shame, I enjoyed meeting some Amiga users in real life and able to finally talk about Amiga stuff to people who know what the hell im on about. CAGA could sponsor these shows.

Now I dont want to come across as a big cheer leader for CAGA, I feel a lot of details need to be sorted for it to be any chance of success. I get why many dont like the idea (Im not a fan of the Subscription model that seems to be creeping into everything) but based on the freebies I be will to support it at least for one year, see what it achieves.

Last edited by amigang on 03-Sep-2022 at 03:54 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 13:22:44
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6479
From: UK

@amigang

£3 for an Amiga meeting is ridiculously cheap! No wonder they lost money! No war chest required just more creativity, problem solving, community spirit and this damn court case actually ending!

Last edited by BigD on 02-Sep-2022 at 01:23 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 16:36:57
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12283
From: Norway

@Turrican3

So, true, we only need subtract the commodore, and the AGA chipset, hardware acceleration and add True Color. Maybe “HATC” be nice acronym.

The next Amiga gathering can be here:

https://hatc-iten.com/

it’s an excellent place to wipe the close to diabetics Amiga’s into shape.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 16:40:43
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12283
From: Norway

@BigD

Quote:
community spirit and this damn court case actually ending!


Are you not worried that that kill of the major growth in the Amiga lawyer community.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Sep-2022 at 05:09 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 16:51:43
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6134
From: Unknown

@amigang

I do not know the organisation of Amiga 34 but I do not think they are dependent on Trevor / Aeon. There are well known people who take part and are invited and expenses are paid so it can mean less sponsoring less prominents but the event itself is not dependent of him.

My basic problem is it sounds a little like Christoph said "give me the money I need it" or more politely "give me the money I will then think what to do with it"

That is not a concept.

"The main goal would be a central website for all Amiga community's, to try and bring them together more, raise the profile of groups, projects and meetings that happen in the community"

I do not really understand that. There are a number of known websites where you find all informations already. Centralizing is not really persuading me. What is the benefit exactly? I do not understand it. And if there are ideas for projects then why not raise money specific for it? I am generally reluctant to give money that is bound to something. Mostly money ends in wrong pockets...

Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Sep-2022 at 05:02 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Sep-2022 at 04:55 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 02-Sep-2022 at 04:52 PM.

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sananaman 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 19:39:58
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Sep-2006
Posts: 247
From: Netherlands

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL
---
Replying to Post #14
---

Heey RJ you big troll....



...

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matthey 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 19:54:49
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1602
From: Kansas

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

So, true, we only need subtract the commodore, and the AGA chipset, hardware acceleration and add True Color. Maybe “HATC” be nice acronym.


Classic Amiga
|
V
decrease OCS/ECS/AGA chipset compatibility -> lose Amiga customers and users
|
V
decrease 68k compatibility -> lose Amiga customers and users
|
V
decrease AmigaOS compatibility -> lose Amiga customers and users
/ \
VV
divide NG market -> lose Amiga customers and users

Is it surprising the NG Amiga market and user base is likely less than 10% of the Amiga market and user base and the PPC AmigaOS 4 market and user base likely less than 5%? Will more elitist arrogance toward the lost Amiga customers and users solve this problem? Do you realize most of the more compatible Amiga systems which are destroying PPC AmigaOS 4 in the market have both AGA and true color support which is a competitive advantage?

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Are you not worried that that kill of the major growth in the Amiga lawyer community.


The only lawyer I see in the Amiga community is a crook that cheats and steals from his business partners, employees and customers. Yea, I hope that major growth is stopped and justice is served. There is a Robin Hood fantasy that needs to be dispelled and the thief with victims seen for what it is.

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Kronos 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 2-Sep-2022 22:22:51
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2262
From: Unknown

Grifter is gonna grift….

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Hans 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 1:29:19
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@amigang

I'm not interested in funding movies about Commodore or Amiga computers. I would be interested in an Amiga Global Alliance (AGA) if it's first goal was to: buy up/merge A-EON, Cloanto, Hyperion, bury the lawsuit(s) and get AmigaOS 4+ development back on track.

One big obstacle is the fragmented community. Look at online discussions, and you'll usually see different groups pushing their desired Amiga computer future: AROS fans say it should be AROS, Vampire/Apollo fans push their solution, MorphOS fans want everyone to unite behind MorphOS, and OS4 fans want everything focused on AmigaOS 4 (and 5). Maybe we'd be better off trying to create some kind of interoperability standard, so writing software for all the platforms is a bit easier. The hardware and APIs are diverging...

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 03-Sep-2022 at 03:42 AM.

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amigang 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 4:26:18
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1873
From: Cheshire, England

@OlafS25

Like I said I think a few more details need to be worked out for it to have success.

At the end of the day If it’s not for you, then it not for you.

I do understand I been burned before on projects, (wings for os4 anyone? X1000 free AmigaOs4.2 anyone? )

plus I do wonder what ever happened to http://www.amigabounty.net
I’m sure it had a few thousand pound bounties in limbo what happened to that money? https://power2people.org/projects/overview/ Same thing some of these open project have been like that for a decade or more, money just sitting there.

Plus the ultimate one has to be Amiga Inc I’m Club Amiga and the famous or infamous free T-shirt and $50 coupon.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030212051238/http://www.amiga-anywhere.com/shop.php?cat_id=22&prod_id=41

It kinda does feel a bit of history repeating it self, I likely wouldn’t back this if it was not for the freebies and it going to have to prove it purpose with in the first year if I was to sign up again behind it.

Last edited by amigang on 03-Sep-2022 at 04:43 AM.
Last edited by amigang on 03-Sep-2022 at 04:42 AM.

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matthey 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 4:58:42
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1602
From: Kansas

Hans Quote:

I'm not interested in funding movies about Commodore or Amiga computers. I would be interested in an Amiga Global Alliance (AGA) if it's first goal was to: buy up/merge A-EON, Cloanto, Hyperion, bury the lawsuit(s) and get AmigaOS 4+ development back on track.


Yea, divided ownership with a cohesive community funding books and movies about the divided ownership failures isn't helping much. I agree that there are too many owner businesses which are either moving in divergent directions or stepping on each others feet. I have suggested a merger before also. It would be great to have everything under Amiga Corporation but Hyperion is uncooperative. Ben has Putin logic thinking he holds all the cards, owns everything and can outmaneuver, bully and wait out everyone else. Maybe AmigaOS 4 could be bought from Hyperion but expect the purchase price to be as big as Ben's ego and we all know how big that is. I wouldn't pay Hyperion again for AmigaOS 4 where the source code was not delivered after being payed for last time. Ben doesn't give much other choice than to nuke him from orbit, wait for the lawsuit verdict and deal with the Hyperion bankruptcy lawyer.

Hans Quote:

One big obstacle is the fragmented community. Look at online discussions, and you'll usually see different groups pushing their desires Amiga computer future: AROS fans say it should be AROS, Vampire/Apollo fans push their solution, MorphOS fans want everyone to unite behind MorphOS, and OS4 fans want everything focused on AmigaOS 4 (and 5). Maybe we'd be better off trying to create some kind of interoperability standard, so writing software for all the platforms is a bit easier. The hardware and APIs are diverging...


A ownership alliance or Amiga Corporation shareholders would still have to decide on a direction for the Amiga. I doubt MorphOS will be interested as they have branched far from the tap root and likely think they have jumped ahead of the Amiga competition with x86-64 support but I don't see it being any more successful than x86-64 AROS especially where they are charging for MorphOS. Performance is not as important as compatibility as the 68k+chipset market has shown. The divergent hardware problem is solvable by returning to the 68k+chipset standard and improving value so people don't want foreign hardware. The AmigaOS would come with this standard hardware so there would be little incentive to use an AmigaOS clone. Failing to return to the 68k+chipset to unite everyone will make it difficult to create interoperability standards as competitors diverge to different goals. I floated new and improved 68k ISAs and ABIs to developers as an open standard but there wasn't much interest without a united parent business leading the development. The best thing that could happen for Amiga standards would be for Amiga Corporation to be seen as the CBM successor which is once again setting the standards. This would likely require some investment to create affordable mass produced but modernized 68k+chipset Amiga compatible hardware perhaps optionally with quality retro style cases. Exploring how far the 68k+chipset Amiga technology can be pushed has so far been more popular than throwing away everything but the AmigaOS. Divided efforts so far are only scratching the surface of what is possible and the potential market size.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 4:59:31
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2039
From: Australia

@BigD

Quote:
I would also have discussions with RGL about THEA500 Maxi and with Stephen Jones and the PiStorm designer


Why Stephen Jones?
All he has ever done is used other peoples work, occasionally paid next to nothing to have work done and had really bad quality cases made.
He brings nothing to the table other than delusions of bringing something to the table.

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QBit 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 7:50:36
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 217
From: Unknown

@all

Stay away from negative people, they have a Problem for every solution!

https://www.gekko-computer.de/Workstations.html?sort=4

Last edited by QBit on 03-Sep-2022 at 07:54 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 7:58:24
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2775
From: Germany

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

MEGA_RJ_MICAL wrote:
If memories of my youthful adventures and romance in the land of the Boot don't fail me,
"CAGA" in Italian means "He shits".

Excellent start!

/MEGA RJ!

To be more precise, "caga" is a northish dialect. The correct Italian term is "caca" (from the "cacare" verb).

Anyway, it's impressive your knowledge about Italian: quite rare for a stranger / non-speaker.

Regarding the topic: it's the usual waste of time and resources. Amiga is a retro-platform: just use it as it is.

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Kronos 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 7:59:21
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2262
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

Quote:


Why Stephen Jones?
All he has ever done is used other peoples work, occasionally paid next to nothing to have work done and had really bad quality cases made.
He brings nothing to the table other than delusions of bringing something to the table.


A.k.a. a perfect fit for the CAGA

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QBit 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 8:09:19
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 217
From: Unknown

@all

At least "cagar" is portuguese and means shitting. "Ele caga" means "He shits"!

PORTUGAL

"Ele CAGA nessa merda"

Last edited by QBit on 03-Sep-2022 at 08:13 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 8:16:17
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12283
From: Norway

@matthey

Quote:

Classic Amiga
|
V
decrease OCS/ECS/AGA chipset compatibility -> lose Amiga customers and users
|
V
decrease 68k compatibility -> lose Amiga customers and users
|
V
decrease AmigaOS compatibility -> lose Amiga customers and users
/ \
VV
divide NG market -> lose Amiga customers and users


Classic Amiga Software
|
V
Open API’s and Plugins -> increases the number of happy users.
|
V
Open Source Old Games and Apps -> increases the number of happy users.
|
V
More open source -> Less splinted NG markets.

I think plugins is solution to AUDIO problem, as many old Amiga systems are too slow to handle full CD quality AHI sound, a plug in system to play music, like ptreplay.library is excellent option. The library is easy to use, from assembler and C, and should be standard for any music disk.

Mega Ball AGA is interesting game, as it demonstrates you can open a system friendly screen and use copper lists. So the argument; you must disable OS to use cooper lists is wrong.

Look at AMOS it does not disable multitasking, instead it creates a new viewport.
(Now I’m not saying AMOS approach is supported in AmigaOS4 / MorphOS but it’s at least better than the alternative. Kill the network and USB stack, ugh… so 1970’s ).

You no longer need to peek and poke at hardware to check if your demo will run, you can use identify.library, a nice system friendly why, make sure your demo works, before you start banging hardware, and crash some ones systems. (The library will bang the hardware for you, on AmigaOS4.x there is a system friendly version, that will not crash on AmigaOS4.x.)

After you check that hardware is not supported, you print text like
“this system is unsupported please use a emulator, or a real Amiga, to run this demo.”

This is how you don’t get pissy comment about your demo or software. from angry OS4.x and MorphOS users.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Sep-2022 at 08:45 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Sep-2022 at 08:44 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Sep-2022 at 08:42 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Sep-2022 at 08:36 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Sep-2022 at 08:17 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: Commodore Amiga Global Alliance
Posted on 3-Sep-2022 8:24:44
#40 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2062
From: Czech Republic

@Hans

Quote:
I would be interested in an Amiga Global Alliance (AGA) if it's first goal was to: buy up/merge A-EON, Cloanto, Hyperion, bury the lawsuit(s) and get AmigaOS 4+ development back on track.

Ditto - but I doubt David Pleasance is interested in OS4/NG very much, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

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