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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 6:24:17
#121 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@agami

Amiga is hobby. hobby have to be something other than work.
Other than x86 and arm.
If you want x86 or arm you have to provide something good enough to sell to our customers.
Something at least on Windows XP level.
Something like Mac Os X.
Something like Amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
x86 followers waste last 27 years for nothing.
Amiga community still has not open source mui clone.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 6:28:03
#122 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@agami

World changes. CRT are no longer produced.
Everyone use LCD which are digital devices working at least in 24 bit.
From developer point of view Amiga graphics chips are useless
because in the end Everyone use 24 bit graphics.
So today NG is nice better classic.
Better because faster and cheaper than for example full 060.




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V8 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 7:47:22
#123 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
So today NG is nice better classic. Better because faster and cheaper than for example full 060.


This is another thing I notice. Failure to understand that classic and ng are different machines for completely different markets with very little overlap.

An NG machine is not better for someone that just wants to keep playing with and expanding his A500. Faster better cheaper? No it is not. If you are into old Commodore Amigas an NG machine is not better at all. In fact it is a lot worse since it is not a commodore amiga running m68k code and it can't even take the expansion boards and HW that a real commodore amiga can.


That is like going to a PlayStation1 retro community and telling them, why don't you buy a PlayStation5 it is much faster and better. Are you stupid or what? Why did you pay 200$ for a PS1Digital mod to have HDMI output? Are you stupid, the PS5 already comes with HDMI built in.
No, a PS5 is not "a better and faster PS1" and it is not a substitute for it either.

Or going to a car meetup for classic musclecars and asking them "why don't you buy a tesla, it is much better and faster car".

I don't think you understand what retro communities are all about.

Last edited by V8 on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:01 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 8:20:26
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

World changes. CRT are no longer produced.
Everyone use LCD which are digital devices working at least in 24 bit.
From developer point of view Amiga graphics chips are useless
because in the end Everyone use 24 bit graphics.
So today NG is nice better classic.
Better because faster and cheaper than for example full 060.

From Amibay.
Full 68060 Rev 5's asking price is about $198 USD
TF1260's asking price $260 USD


PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68 Raspberry Pi 4B has a downward price pressure on the 68060's "Amiga tax price gouging".

$198 is close to PiStorm32 Lite ($76.24 USD, GBP 99.99, EUR 84.95 ) and RPi 4B 2GB (EUR 61.34) total price.

Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:31 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:28 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:22 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:21 AM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 8:43:20
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@V8

Quote:

V8 wrote:
@ppcamiga1

Quote:
So today NG is nice better classic. Better because faster and cheaper than for example full 060.


This is another thing I notice. Failure to understand that classic and ng are different machines for completely different markets with very little over


For DevilutionX 1.4.x at 1280x720p,

A1200 with Pistorm32 Lite-Emu68-RPi 4B's DevilutionX 1.4 68K delivers about SAM460 performance with DevilutionX 1.4 PPC SDL 1.2 port.

SAM460's DevilutionX performance is slightly faster than A1222+.

C= A1200 (with Pistorm32 Lite-Emu68-RPi 4B) is touching NG's performance territory e.g. A1222+ and SAM460.




Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:44 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 11:48:01
#126 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
ppcamiga1 wrote:
@agami

Amiga is hobby. hobby have to be something other than work.
Other than x86 and arm.
If you want x86 or arm you have to provide something good enough to sell to our customers.
Something at least on Windows XP level.
Something like Mac Os X.
Something like Amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
x86 followers waste last 27 years for nothing.
Amiga community still has not open source mui clone.

What you're saying is that Amiga NG is an instant classic.
Because it's:
- Not for work, i.e. not x86 or ARM
- AmigaOS 4 is not at the level of Windows XP (32bit) or Mac OS X (32bit)
- AmigaOS 4 is not Amiga GUI on top of Unix

Got it.

And because of this instant classic status, PPC developers did NOT waste 27 years for nothing.

Got it.

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V8 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 13:09:25
#127 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
So today NG is nice better classic


So, on a NG, where do I plug in my A590? Can I boot an NG machine from the KS1.3 floppies using a genuine Amiga floppy drive?

Can I upgrade/mod the NG box to take a fat-agnus?

No? Is so, why on earth would I want an NG machine if I am into Commodore Amiga retro machines?

An NG machine is as pointless to me as a replacement for the A500 as an Italian Vespa moped would be. And you don't understand why. That is the issue.

Last edited by V8 on 12-Jul-2023 at 01:12 PM.

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Livebyfaith 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 16:00:33
#128 ]
Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2010
Posts: 29
From: Unknown

@V8

I think it is important to understand that this goes both ways too. I was never a real game player on my Amigas. I have always been a console gamer. I have all my favorite consoles from the early 80s til now. That is where I play games.

So I have almost no desire to use an old A500 with 1.3. What I loved, was expanding my A500 and then A3000 to do more and to better my overall experience. I like Workbench as an environment. Actually by the time I even got a 500, about 1993, the chipset was a hindrance. I exclusively owned an Amiga as my main computer until around 2001. I finished with an A3000 50mhz 060, 64 mb ram CVPPC video 8mb, network card, sound card, UW SCSI hard drive, OS 3.9

I could spend a bunch of money restoring my old Amigas to what I had and go a little further or I can go with an Amiga experience (Workbench, as I don't care about OCS, ECS, AGA games etc) that is far better and really the realization of everything that I wanted back in 2001.

My X5000 40 and OS4.1 does not compete with a modern PCs or Macs, but that is ok with me. If I need to use one, a cheap PC on the side is always an option or just use your phone. OS4.1 is the ultimate Amiga experience...for me. And I love it. It doesn't take away from classic machines. I am glad there is so much going on for them. But at the end of the day OS4.1 is a much better experience for me than 3.9 (haven't tried 3.2).

We don't need to all like the same thing. I know many people remember gaming on their Amigas, I am just not one of them. I can't stand WB 1.3. I started with 2.05 I think. The Amiga community is more diverse in our interests. I know we all want a better future for the Amiga, but honestly I am amazed that in 2023 that I am writing this post on brand new Amiga hardware and that we are getting new and updated software every year.

I would also like to mention that OS4.1 on real hardware is far more capable than I thought just using emulation. I can do almost everything that I would do on my PCs or Macs. In fact I would say my X5000 has nearly replaced my PC for almost everything I do, except in depth Bible study, as I have a lot of software and books on it. I still use my Mac often, as I do some video editing work in Final Cut. But for everything else I am using my Amiga.

Sure, it would get even better with an updated browser and some more software. But with such a small market, I am impressed with what we have.

There is no need to bicker on whose experience is really an Amiga and whose isn't. Support the companies and developers that are making the things you want and they might be able to keep going and advancing what you want in an Amiga.

For me, I am glad that someone wanted to realize the dream of an Amiga 5000, because it was my dream too. So I will support them and the developers that make this experience possible.


Last edited by Livebyfaith on 12-Jul-2023 at 07:32 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 16:41:59
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@V8

Quote:
So, on a NG, where do I plug in my A590?


inside It you find SCSI HD, as SCSI is common, you can get a adapter from SCSI to USB or IDE, we need something does not need a driver, or is not made for windows only, there no SCSI to SATA, that I can find, but you have IDE to SATA adapters. So yeh you probably can connect HD to your A1222 computer.

Quote:
using a genuine Amiga floppy drive?


in that case you need Amiga floppy controller like this one:

https://www.vesalia.de/e_catweaselmk4.htm

Quote:
Can I boot an NG machine from the KS1.3 floppies using a genuine Amiga floppy drive?


EUAE does support Catweasel, so you can boot, WB1.3 from floppy if you like to.

Quote:
Can I upgrade/mod the NG box to take a fat-agnus?


You can customize EUAE configuration, to emulate any classic Amiga computer.
and you can have more than one configuration file.

Can you work on interesting hardware project on AmigaONE?

YES! Absolutely.

https://www.dustin.no/product/5011200690/m2-nvme-ssd-to-pci-e-4x-adapter-card
https://www.crowdsupply.com/rhs-research/nitefury

Nitefury Has IO ports for GPIO and analog ports, on board memory, plus a fast FPGA.
I bet it can be used as handy floppy driver controller, paula sound chip emulation ++
you don't even need to design it, Perhaps all you need is some level shifters.
With on board memory, you can process planar into chunky, and copy the result using DMA.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Jul-2023 at 11:18 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:37 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Jul-2023 at 08:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Jul-2023 at 05:56 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Jul-2023 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Jul-2023 at 04:42 PM.

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ktadd 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 12-Jul-2023 18:50:39
#130 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jul-2003
Posts: 594
From: California, USA

@Livebyfaith

Quote:
I think it is important to understand that this goes both ways too. Iwas never a real game player on my Amigas. I have always been a console gamer. I have all my favorite consoles from the early 80s til now. That is where I play games.

So I have almost no desire to use an old A500 with 1.3. What I loved, was expanding my A500 and then A3000 to do more and better my experience. I like Workbench as an environment. Actually by the time I even got a 500, about 1993, the chipset was a hindrance. I exclusively owned an Amiga as my main computer until around 2001. I finished with an A3000 50mhz 060, 64 mb ram CVPPC video 8mb, network card, sound card, UW SCSI hard drive, OS 3.9


I usually don't chime in on these types of treads because I find them very imature, but this post is one of the first really mature response I have seen and very much reflects my path with the Amiga. I purchased a new A1000 back in the 1980's. I was given an 500 and let my kids use it. In the 90's I purchased and A3000 spent the next several years expanding it ot eventually have an 060, PicassoIV and internet card, along with a 386 PC card. It was a lot of fun. In 2004 I purchased a uA1 and found new life in my hoppy with OS4 because the A3000 was getting long in the tooth and couldn't do some of the more modern things I wanted to do. I had fun buildig it from scratch. Once the X1000 was realease I purchased one and have been using it ever since as my everyday machine. For the few things I can't do with it or websites that don't work in the existing browsers I use remote desktop on the X1000 to connect to a cheap Windows 10 laptop. This setup works great as a daily driver and I have enjoyed developing software and scripts to run on my X1000 to fill my needs with the system. I've also enjoyed sharing those developments with other so they might find a little more enjoyment as well.

I will buy and Tabor to use as a backup system and have fun setting it up to be as "portable" as possible. I already have a small case that will fit the RX550 graphics card with a 13.3" portable display.

I also have a lot of respect for people that stick with the original 68k models and have fun with their systems in what ever way they choose. I can see the fun in that as well. The point is that they are all hobby system and I think that almost all users understand this, and almost nobody thinks any of these systems are going to make some kind of main stream come back.

What I don't understand is the very imature people here that think that one approach or the other is better or worse than the other and I really don't understand what motivates such a person to come on to a public forum and bash or put down anyone who participates in one approach or the other. I'm just gald that there are still new developments for both hobbies that allow each to continue to survive so everyone can continue to enjoy their hobby.

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Amiga4000 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 1:43:44
#131 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 375
From: The Ford Galaxy

Submitted without comment........


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tygre 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 2:43:19
#132 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2011
Posts: 279
From: Montreal, QC, Canada

@ktadd

+1

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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 3:24:50
#133 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ktadd @Livebyfaith

No one is saying one is better than the other.

OK, no one other than @ppcamiga1 I saying one is better than the other.
Actually, what he is really saying is that new one is pretty much the same as the old one, but a little better.

@V8 and others, including myself, are simply correcting the erroneous statements.

You don’t seem to frequent these parts so I’ll catch you up:

@ppcamiga1 is kind of nuts, intolerant , and more than a little bigoted. He hardly ever has anything valuable to contribute to a conversation and generally just dumps on things he doesn’t like.

For the most part I choose to ignore him, but then he’ll reply to a post of mine and reveal his ignorance, and that I struggle to abide.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 4:52:50
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@Amiga4000

Quote:

Amiga4000 wrote:
Submitted without comment........



For A1222+, any case needs to factor in a discrete graphics card.

Retro Amiga tower should be based on A4000T's black-and-white style in a smaller ITX tower.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 04:59 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
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redfox 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 5:03:23
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 2070
From: Canada

@Amiga4000

A1222wedge ... reminds me of the Amiga-fantasy system


redfox

Last edited by redfox on 13-Jul-2023 at 05:05 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 5:35:45
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@Livebyfaith

Quote:

Livebyfaith wrote:
@V8

I think it is important to understand that this goes both ways too. I was never a real game player on my Amigas. I have always been a console gamer. I have all my favorite consoles from the early 80s til now. That is where I play games.

So I have almost no desire to use an old A500 with 1.3. What I loved, was expanding my A500 and then A3000 to do more and to better my overall experience. I like Workbench as an environment. Actually by the time I even got a 500, about 1993, the chipset was a hindrance. I exclusively owned an Amiga as my main computer until around 2001. I finished with an A3000 50mhz 060, 64 mb ram CVPPC video 8mb, network card, sound card, UW SCSI hard drive, OS 3.9

C= Commodore can't survive with just Video Toaster bundles.


Quote:

I could spend a bunch of money restoring my old Amigas to what I had and go a little further or I can go with an Amiga experience (Workbench, as I don't care about OCS, ECS, AGA games etc) that is far better and really the realization of everything that I wanted back in 2001.

My X5000 40 and OS4.1 does not compete with a modern PCs or Macs, but that is ok with me. If I need to use one, a cheap PC on the side is always an option or just use your phone. OS4.1 is the ultimate Amiga experience...for me. And I love it. It doesn't take away from classic machines. I am glad there is so much going on for them. But at the end of the day OS4.1 is a much better experience for me than 3.9 (haven't tried 3.2).

FYI, X5000/40 doesn't have PowerPC's Altivec 128-bit SIMD. A PC with an SSE SIMD extension will beat the e5500 CPU core's 64-bit scalar design.

The old AMD K10 Athlon II X4 / K10 Phenom X4 (64-bit quad-core with two 128-bit SIMD hardware per core) or old Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (64-bit quad-core with two 128-bit SIMD hardware per core) will beat P5040 (64-bit scalar quad-core).

Athlon II X4 / Phenom X4 and Core 2 Quad Q6600 are not "modern" PCs or Macs.

P5040 supports DDR3-1600 which is 1st gen Core i3/i5/i7 and Phenom X4's AM3 DDR3 era.

The e5500 CPU's dual instruction issue per cycle with out-of-order design is like AMD Jaguar or Intel Atom Pineview, but these netbook AMD/Intel CPUs have 128-bit SIMD hardware. AMD Jaguar 8-core CPUs are used in PS4 and Xbox One.

Core 2 CPU core is quad instruction issues per cycle with out-of-order design.
K10 CPU core is three instruction issues per cycle with out-of-order design.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 05:46 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 5:45:29
#137 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@V8

last time I use amiga floppy 29 years ago.
I don't need this crap.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 5:50:13
#138 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@ktadd

some idiots think that if thay attack long enough amiga users switch to pc
not going to happen until pistorm aros x86 or other pc "amiga" shit
will reach at least XP level

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 13-Jul-2023 at 05:58 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 5:57:29
#139 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@agami

Amiga NG was attempt to modernize Amiga.
To made something like Mac Os 9.
It was succes. It is something like Mac Os 9.
Amiga NG is Amiga that Commodore made if survive to for ex. 1996.
As fast as cheap pc from Win95 era with 2D and 3D as fast as on cheap pc from Win95
with working MMU and FPU.
At price lower than 68k.
real 68k solutions never reach level of cheap pc from Win95 era.
always something missing.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 6:17:07
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@ktadd

some idiots think that if thay attack long enough amiga users switch to pc
not going to happen until pistorm aros x86 or other pc shit
will reach at least XP level

Many Amiga users have modern internet-capable MacOS or Windows PC or Android devices e.g. Facebook Amiga groups.

Without 3rd party "Legacy Update" cloud service (https://legacyupdate.net/), Windows XP SP3 is gimped.

Microsoft has been removing Windows XP / Office 2003 / Office 2007 software update patches and XP-related drivers from their cloud services.

3rd party "Legacy Update" service enables any fresh Windows XP SP3 installs to be software patched and drivers downloaded.

My point, Windows XP usability went backward without the 3rd party "Legacy Update" cloud service.

Linux camp is making client OS inroads with Apple and Microsoft dropping software support for older hardware.




Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 06:18 AM.

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