@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @hammer @agami I want Amiga as fast and as comfortable as my first pc running Windows 95. My first pc was cheap 90 MHz AMD pentium clone. It was year 1996. I want Amiga with - compatible os - real cpu - cpu as fast as pentium 90 - 2D as fast as on pc in 1996 - 3D as fast as on pc in 1996 - working compatible MMU - working compatible FPU In one Amiga. Amiga 68k still is not as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996. Always something is missig. Amiga NG is at least as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996. So Amiga NG was success. @hammer @agami you and other 68k trolls should accept reality. 68k after so many years is still not good enough.

There is a distinct difference in stating that something is a success to your own wants rather than in more objective measures.

At the end of the day, these are both retro systems, even if bought new such as a Vampire V4+ Standalone. Neither is a modern computing equivalent by the standards of average computer users.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Jul-2023 at 10:07 PM.

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Hope the 1222 sell out and find support.

The OS is only half the battle, the development environments and native apps need dollars and help.

I think if they would have better spent the money on furthering the OS, environment, and apps it may have been a better investment.

Sadly new Amiga PPC hardware is not even close to performance levels that apple produced in 2005, so put the money into the OS and add function. I get the fun behind it for sure, as bespoke hw is part of the appeal but I would rather see the development go into making it more productive in 2023 where it can...

Read that it will out perform the SAM in some areas, I didn't expect that. Pleasantly surprised for sure.

Last edited by Matt3k on 15-Jul-2023 at 02:04 AM.
Last edited by Matt3k on 14-Jul-2023 at 11:40 PM.
Last edited by Matt3k on 14-Jul-2023 at 11:33 PM.

@fairlanefastback

Amico swindled investors and preorder customers out of 17 to 34 million dollars depending on who you ask so the drama is more well know and an order of magnitude higher than Amiga. Amiga drama has been going on a lot longer so you do have that. And at least some Amiga products have been delivered over the years. McBill did ask for 100 million dollars a long time ago but no one actually was dumb enough to give it to him.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:40 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 11:56 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 11:54 PM.

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@DiscreetFX

Not comparable, this AmigaONE’s are not preorder.

I order a some Transparent Joystick of different colors that I paid for that was never delivered, there are a lot scammers in the retro market, hobbyist and crooked dealers. Definitely something you should keep your eyes out for when buying hardware, accidents also happen in the post, getting things repaired even if its brand new can be hard, warranties are not always respected, sadly. I have also experienced Amazon using a fake package delivery company.

I don’t want to buy anything from Amazon again.

Some dealer list things that are not in stock and won’t tell you about it until you call or nag about it on their Facebook page.

Buying thins from private people over ebay, I remember lots of fake packages scams for a while.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:26 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:20 AM.

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@DiscreetFX

Kickstarter funded things in general has high likelihood of not being delivered or completed, your basically founding something that does not exist, if your willing to do that, you should be prepared for consequences if a project falls short.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:28 AM.

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@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote: @fairlanefastback Amico swindled investors and preorder customers out of 17 to 34 million dollars depending on who you ask so the drama is more well know known and an order of magnitude higher than Amiga. Amiga drama has been going on a lot longer so you do have that. And at least some Amiga products have been delivered over the years. McBill did ask for 100 million dollars a long time ago but no one actually was dumb enough to give it to him.

I don't tend to shed tears too much for any "sophisticated investors" or people with a lot of money to burn. Intellivision did not get 17 to 34 million from just people leaving $100 deposits on consoles. *Those* are the people I have pity for, the actual retro enthusiasts to whom the average person $100 is not insignificant in their lives.

They got 17+ million from people who should know quite a bit better that Tommy is like a slick used car salesman. I actually sat through that 4 hours Youtube video you linked. The guy was firing off warning signs consistently day to day and year after year. Yet people who could afford it clearly were throwing money at him allowing him to hire more and more folks and open more offices across the world.

It's certainly an intriguing story with large dollar amounts involved. But it's a lot more clear-cut story. Narcissistic, but charming in his own way guy gets a lot of people to part with money to end up swindled.

Amiga might be past its heydey of drama, but you had a hell of a more complicated, multi-faceted story of where people stood and how things got so complicated to set those divisions into motion. Just look at how many threads on this site went on endlessly. AROS/MorphOS/AmigaNG/Amiga68k/Amiga Inc./Genesi/Hyperion/emulation/complicated rights questions. Amica is more of a "Tommy is a god and right" vs. "Tommy is an idiot and/or a swindler" thing.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:40 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

AmiCo getting kicked out of their offices and equipment getting auctioned off sure brings back McBill Amiga Inc memories.

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@Thread

Back on track! Yay another expensive dongle to run the AmigaOS 4.x windowed GUI "Show All files> Clean up by Column> Snapshot All" simulator killer app!


Give me the PO Box ASAP to post the £x,000s to get in on the action!

Only Amiga makes "When it's done" take AGES!!!

Last edited by BigD on 15-Jul-2023 at 01:21 AM.

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Thread Back on track! Yay another expensive dongle to run the AmigaOS 4.x windowed GUI "Show All files> Clean up by Column> Snapshot All" simulator killer app! Give me the PO Box ASAP to post the £x,000s to get in on the action! Only Amiga makes "When it's done" take AGES!!!

It seems to me that the deep pockets folks for things like this must get smaller every year, between disinterest creep and heck, folks literally starting to die off.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

It seems to me that the deep pockets folks for things like this must get smaller every year, between disinterest creep and heck, folks literally starting to die off.

BINGO!

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@Matt3k

What is not always taken in consideration in "future investment" is that P1022 CPU in A1222 is dual core. This is something that will instantly outperform other single core Amigas when released for AmigaOS4. Even very generic multicore implementation where some task is on first core and the other on the second can boost things considerably. Its not here yet but it is in hardware and ready to use.

-dooz

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @hammer @agami I want Amiga as fast and as comfortable as my first pc running Windows 95. My first pc was cheap 90 MHz AMD pentium clone. It was year 1996. I want Amiga with - compatible os - real cpu - cpu as fast as pentium 90 - 2D as fast as on pc in 1996 - 3D as fast as on pc in 1996 - working compatible MMU - working compatible FPU In one Amiga. Amiga 68k still is not as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996. Always something is missig. Amiga NG is at least as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996. So Amiga NG was success. @hammer @agami you and other 68k trolls should accept reality. 68k after so many years is still not good enough.

First of all, AMD's K5 PR90 (90Mhz) is not Pentium 90 Mhz.

https://thandor.net/benchmark/33
Pentium 100 = 26.70 fps
K5-PR133 (100 Mhz) = 24.40 fps
Pentium 90Mhz = 24.30 fps
Pentium 75 Mhz = 20.00 fps
K5 PR90 (90Mhz) = 18.50 fps https://thandor.net/object/307
Pentium 60 mhz =15.90 fps

TF1260 with 68060 @ 62.5Mhz overclock is about Pentium 60 which is close to AMD K5 PR90 (90Mhz). 68060 Rev 6 with 100Mhz is about Pentium 75 Mhz.

My 1996 PC has Pentium 150 (with 166 Mhz overclock via a single front-side bus jumper).

AmigaOS 4.1's 68K emulator doesn't emulate 68K MMU i.e. the working MMU is a foreign PowerPC MMU.

Quote:

you and other 68k trolls should accept reality. 68k after so many years is still not good enough.

Your narrative on my argument position is FALSE.

My A1200 has PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68-RPi 4B (ARM Cortex A72 @ 1.5 Ghz) debunks your narrative.

From http://eliyahu.org/tabor/games.html for A1222+
DevilutionX (port of Diablo) = Performance "a bit slower than SAM460"

C= A1200 with "PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68-RPi 4B" DevilutionX 68K rivals SAM460's DevilutionX PPC performance on 1280x720 and 640x480 resolutions.

---------------

A1222+ has an OpenGL acceleration advantage with AMD Radeon Southern Island-based GCNs, but A1222+ is limited by PCIe 1.0 4X (1GB/s write I/O bandwidth). I already have an unused Radeon HD 7950 (900Mhz overclock variant) for any future PCIe A1 purchase.

RPi 3B's Broadcom VideoCore IV iGPU running Quake 3 Vulkan potential https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-fBxclt4BE

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jul-2023 at 12:19 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:45 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:32 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:31 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:27 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

For anyone who owns a X5000, X1000 this product be less interesting,
for anyone who has slower Sam440 / Sam460, I think they are looking at this product harder.
yeh sure some beta tester and OS developers who will have hardware.
I think also people gotten a small teste of a faster system, like vampire can be interested in this system. (if they are not hardcore gamers, but you don’t need Vampire to run A500 game)
on the other hard how willing are they invest in a 2en system, this product arrived too late.

Yeh.. if Amiga community is to expand, we need product has appeal outside of Amiga community. paradoxically the QEMU is providing good way try out the system without buying an expensive system first. But I wont expect a huge influx of new users from there.

WinUAE simply does not do that, as it can’t offer 3D and video acceleration, and its soo slow.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 11:34 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 11:00 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 10:58 AM.

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@dooz

Quote:

Its not here yet but it is in hardware and ready to use.

"When it's done!"

They haven't had much time I guess to bring SMT functionality into AmigaOS4.x ready for the A1222+ launch! It's only been 9 years since this Tabor/A1222/A1222 Plus/A1222+ was announced! They weren't to know SMT would give the A1222+ a hardware USP were they?

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@BigD

SPE is a SIMD instruction set.
This means It is actually pretty fast when used correct,
and you do several math operations in parallel.

https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/reference-manual/SPEPEM.pdf
https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1514424.pdf

SPE does not replace AltiVec, and does not replace a normal FPU.
what is its alternative to normal FPU, this means of software is optimized for it, can be faster and better then normal FPU, but its not backwards compatible.

So in this case of it’s not a BUG, it’s a feature.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 02:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 02:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:05 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 12:03 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

So in this case of it’s not a BUG, it’s a feature.

It is a design unsuitable for OS4 (which knew next to anybody in this community, except A-Eon of course). I doubt even SPE optimized 3D games will be faster on A1222 than on SAM460.

@pavlor

AMCC 460 has an underperformance issue due to lack of Cache coherence, this effects DMA transferees.

P1022 has support Cache coherence does not have that problem and it is clocked higher, so under ideal conditions is a better CPU.

But as P1022 has a software problem, just compiling a game for it won’t give full potential, due to many parts of system is not optimized for this CPU.

Sound mixing in AHI can suffer from float point audio streams and mixing, mpega.library and other libraries is not optimized. For best performance a lot of the system also need to be optimized for the P1022.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 05:06 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 05:04 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I´m still waiting for some Quake 3 benchmarks.

P1022 was probably OK design for embedded use, but weird choice (to put it charitably) for OS4 board. Sure, with price under 300 EUR, nobody would complain, but after 8 years of development, final price is even above SAM460, which is - as of now - far better board for OS4.

@NutsAboutAmiga

WinUAE running on a modern PC slow?