@Hypex

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Hypex wrote: @ppcamiga1 Quote: I expect less price. We all did. Timing is the worse. Quote: But even 1600 Euro for whole computer is still less than a1200 with 040 card and pci slots and voodoo3 in 2023 prices. a1222 will be new and hudred times faster tha 040. That may be so. Just like my A1/XE setup cost me $2,000 against $2,500 for my overall A1200 setup and made my A1200 look like crap. But, people will say it's not a real Amiga,

Well, because it's the truth: no PC-with-PowerPC is an Amiga! By definition!

And this A1222 isn't even an AmigaOne (the brand which is usually, but not exclusively, used for a PC-with-PowerPC).

Why could you pretend to call them "Amiga"? Any FACT supporting you on that?
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compare it with their PC or Mac, then say it's too expensive.

Even if you compare them to some a servers they are expensive...
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Amiga people have been saying the same thing the last 20 years. Sometimes I wonder if Amiga users were ever Amiga users because they always say how good the PC and Windows is now and rely on Windows to install Amiga software. On their Amiga. Without complaining that their real Amiga and Amiga cards cost so much more than a PC and is so much slower.

Hypex, how old are you? Those discussions were typical when we were young and Amiga fanaticals.

However we've grown-up and the fanaticism should have been gone from long time, right?

More important, we should be professionals now. And as such, only technical FACTs / technical data should matter when analyzing something and giving our opinion (which could be different, even having the same facts/data: there are still different backgrounds / experiences and visions).

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Hypex wrote: @agami Quote: In this regard A-EON, Hyperion, and the MorphOS team are no different. They maintain a PowerPC stance because of the commercial gravity pulling in the direction of existing/completed OS work and developed apps. When it costs them more to maintain PowerPC then to switch away, then the commercially sensible thing to do will be to switch away. Which is kind of where we find ourselves today, it's just that it's happening in Amiga slow motion. Except here there is one big difference. By the time Apple were dropping PPC they had already dropped MacOS. They dumped MacOS in 2001 and replaced it with OSX.

That's because the MacOses had a good level on abstraction which make it way easier.

Something which is completely lacking to the Amiga o.s. (no abstraction and everything exposed = no future for the o.s.).

Even Windows 1.0 was much better designed, from this PoV.
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To compare with Apple, the Amiga world with OS4 and MorphOS are still running MacOS Classic PPC. To logically follow in Apples foot steps,

Why we should do the same? There's no logic on that, unless that it's proven (how?).
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since anything Amiga has been living under Macs shadow since last century, they need to replace the OS with UNIX. Once they replace the core of what is left of the Amiga, for any practical use, the OS, they can then move off PPC. They could even replace AmigaOS with Windows, since most Amigas users use Windows these days. Why most Amiga user don't use macOS is lost on me, since macOS is more Amiga like than Windows ever was, and runs on those cheaper Intel CPUs.

That's the keyword: TO YOU!

I find Windows closer to the Amiga than Macs with MacOS. I even use the SUBST command to simulate Amiga's volumes assigns.

@cdimauro

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I find Windows closer to the Amiga than Macs with MacOS. I even use the SUBST command to simulate Amiga's volumes assigns.

Guilty as charged!

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@pixie

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pixie wrote: @cdimauro Quote: I find Windows closer to the Amiga than Macs with MacOS. I even use the SUBST command to simulate Amiga's volumes assigns. Guilty as charged!

Given it's been 30 years, it's no surprise that most consumer computing operating systems have implemented facsimiles of Amiga OS conventions and paradigms during that time. But none of them are quite the modern re-imagining of the paradigm shift that was Amiga OS.

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@cdimauro

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Something which is completely lacking to the Amiga o.s. (no abstraction and everything exposed = no future for the o.s.).

This made it a dream for people that actually wanted to work out how stuff worked! Admittedly configuring the system was/is problematic considering how long Commodore was absent from development guidance! AHI, RTG, Picasso96, Oxypatcher/Cyberpatcher, etc all came afterwards!

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@pixie

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pixie wrote: @cdimauro Quote: I find Windows closer to the Amiga than Macs with MacOS. I even use the SUBST command to simulate Amiga's volumes assigns. Guilty as charged!

Oops...


@agami

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agami wrote: @pixie Quote: pixie wrote: @cdimauro Guilty as charged! Given it's been 30 years, it's no surprise that most consumer computing operating systems have implemented facsimiles of Amiga OS conventions and paradigms during that time. But none of them are quite the modern re-imagining of the paradigm shift that was Amiga OS.

Same feeling, but what I miss primarily is the general volumes handling of the Amiga o.s..
SUBST is a very old command, which was fortunately expanded to allow to specify full paths, but it's just a single letter that could be used. And you cannot "chain" (ADD) paths to the same assign.

Other things which I miss is the general filesystem structure and syntax of commands.

The datatypes... yeah! There are codecs now, but it's not exactly the same things.

Those are the most important things which I miss.


@BigD

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BigD wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Something which is completely lacking to the Amiga o.s. (no abstraction and everything exposed = no future for the o.s.). This made it a dream for people that actually wanted to work out how stuff worked! Admittedly configuring the system was/is problematic considering how long Commodore was absent from development guidance! AHI, RTG, Picasso96, Oxypatcher/Cyberpatcher, etc all came afterwards!

Patching the o.s. was good for implementing those things. However it was its biggest problem that crippled its evolution.

In fact, there's no NG o.s.: AROS, MorphOS, OS4, are all ports or reimplementation of the original o.s.. There's absolutelu nothing "NG", because all problems of the original o.s. are still there...

@cdimauro

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... what I miss primarily is the general volumes handling of the Amiga o.s.. SUBST is a very old command, which was fortunately expanded to allow to specify full paths, but it's just a single letter that could be used. And you cannot "chain" (ADD) paths to the same assign. Other things which I miss is the general filesystem structure and syntax of commands. The datatypes... yeah! There are codecs now, but it's not exactly the same things. Those are the most important things which I miss.

Hear, hear! Thes are aspects where the Amiga still stands out! Although only for those who recognise this.

OldFart

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@thread

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OldFart wrote: @cdimauro Quote: ... what I miss primarily is the general volumes handling of the Amiga o.s.. SUBST is a very old command, which was fortunately expanded to allow to specify full paths, but it's just a single letter that could be used. And you cannot "chain" (ADD) paths to the same assign. Other things which I miss is the general filesystem structure and syntax of commands. The datatypes... yeah! There are codecs now, but it's not exactly the same things. Those are the most important things which I miss. Hear, hear! These are aspects where the Amiga still stands out! Although only for those who recognise this. OldFart

OK, let the record show the motion put forward by @cdimauro has been seconded by @OldFart.
I will now ask for a vote of the assembled committee: All in favour of the motion that no other contemporary consumer computing operating system has yet reached equivalence with OG Amiga OS levels of coolness?

The motion has passed with 3 ayes, 0 nays.

With this, the resolution that "In fact, there's no NG o.s.: AROS, MorphOS, OS4, are all ports or reimplementation of the original o.s.. There's absolutelu nothing "NG", because all problems of the original o.s. are still there..." has also been adopted.

This session has concluded. Council adjourned.

Last edited by agami on 18-Nov-2023 at 02:41 AM.

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