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michalsc 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 12:18:04
#81 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 377
From: Germany

@Amiga4000

Quote:
What operating system(s) does the PiStorm32 with Emu68 + RPi 4B run?


AmigaOS

Quote:
What operating system(s) does the Buffee run?


I assume AmigaOS too

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 12:51:38
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7329
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
its not my job to sell it..


Remind me who's job that is again? Hence I asked out the equivalent of the X1000 teaser website! We now seem to operate on a, "build it and the fanatics will buy it!" marketing strategy!

What became of System54? What's the road map for future AmigaOne/AmigaOS 4.x development? More questions than answers IMHO!

Last edited by BigD on 09-Jul-2023 at 12:52 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 13:05:49
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@BigD

System54 is Enhancer, (its libraries and commands, made by AEON), thatís installed on top of Hyperionís Operating system. Itís also AEON backup plan if things had ended badly in the legal system with Cloanto. Or if Hyperion is unable to ship product. Itís far from a complete operating system of its own.

There are many produces like that for 680x0 AmigaOS,
like BetterWB, CalssicWB, AmiKit, sorry donít remember them all.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 13:35:39
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@BigD

For all intent and purpose, Enhancer is an essential package, you canít skip, it has all video driverís with full functionality, where standard installation of AmigaOS4.1 typical has only a demo version of the drivers, with limited functionality. You can skip parts of the donít want during installation, but as user you just donít know about dependencies, and if new features are required by something.

I do skip parts when I install it. (like AK DataTypes)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2023 at 01:37 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Jul-2023 at 01:36 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 14:47:55
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6368
From: Unknown

@michalsc

BTW will it run Aros 68k too in future?

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PR 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 16:29:49
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1961
From: Suomi-Finland

Jes so now we old users get a new OS for the expensive XE too in this case finally with bells and Browsers+printing at least;)

Dusting it off. Can Thank me for support later.




Last edited by PR on 09-Jul-2023 at 04:30 PM.

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Tpod 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 16:39:26
#87 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Oct-2009
Posts: 150
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

'Amiga community need something better than graphics from C= to keep up
with changed sizes of decent tv/monitors.
a1222 may be nice better retro. '

Well I have no 4K TV's or very up-to-date monitors so you may have a point. However in my experience with 1080p screens I would say, with the right converter (if you need one) games look much nicer than on my Amiga 1438S Ö no horrible scan lines (that some people strangely like)!

My next Monitor (when its ready) will be a Checkmate IPS screen from Steve Jones; its worth checking out if you have a Classic & no screen that works well with it.

There's obviously no doubt the A1222 will produce great results on modern screens without any converters/upgrades unlike Classics & with OS4.1 you have a more modern capable 'retro'. So there's no denying it has its good points.

_________________
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A2000+Supra28mhz+9mbRAM+OS3.2.2, CD32 & WinUAE

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michalsc 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 9-Jul-2023 16:47:27
#88 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 377
From: Germany

@OlafS25

Haven't tried recently but it should...
sorry for OT

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Livebyfaith 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 2:01:41
#89 ]
Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2010
Posts: 29
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I am in too.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 5:06:35
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
pistorm is emulator.
there is no reasons to use this shit.
Just use pc with winuae.

WinUAE can use Drawbridge which can read Amiga floppy disks. I do have operational AmigaOS 4.1 FE Update 2 with +1 GB Fast RAM and Voodoo 3D on WinUAE.
AMD FreeSync / NVIDIA GSync enables 50 hz refresh rates.
WinUAE can use X87's FP80 hardware to match with 68K FP80.

AmigaOS 4.x PPC uses UAE for "kick the OS" Amiga 68K games. AmigaOS 4.x also includes an inline 68K emulator for OS-friendly 68K programs. Look in the mirror.

PiStorm is just the gateway adapter board.

Emu68 is the software for CPU translation, attaching LPDDR3-3200 (for RPi 4B) system memory to AmigaOS's AutoConfig Z3 rules and subset 68040.library requirements e.g. don't cache chip memory address range. Emu68 translates the entire 68000 to 68060 instruction set despite self-reporting as "68040". Emu68 FPU is up to FP64.

Emu68's approach is similar to Transmeta's Code Morph.
Read https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs6120/2019fa/blog/transmeta/

----------
Similar to Intel Pentium Pro (P6), AMD K5 / NexGen 5x86 (RISC86), and IBM PowerPC 970 / POWER4 CPUs, the ARM Cortex A72 has 3-wide decoders (translation) that can break up three ARM instructions into five micro-operations at the dispatch stage.


https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MC68060UM.pdf
The MC68060 variable-length instruction system is internally decoded into a fixed-length representation and channeled into an instruction buffer.

Fixed format instructions are dispatched to dual four-stage pipelined RISC operand execution engines where they are then executed.


Fixed-length instruction is one of the major RISC concepts.

Both the 68K and PPC Amiga market help with the revenue bottom line for Hyperion and Cloanto / Amiga Corporation.


I still have my old MSI Gaming X Trio Radeon R9 290X 4GB PCIe for any future neo-Amiga PPC. I have an incoming Radeon RX 7900 XT 20 GB to replace my RTX 3070 8 GB.


PS; I'm aware of A-Eon "Enhancer Software Release V54" branch.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 06:15 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 05:40 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 05:36 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 05:35 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 05:26 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 05:22 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 05:07 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 5:14:41
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@Amiga4000

Quote:

Amiga4000 wrote:
@Hammer

Soooooooooory, another question if I may...

What operating system(s) does the PiStorm32 with Emu68 + RPi 4B run?
What operating system(s) does the Buffee run?


1. AmigaOS 68K.

2. AmigaOS 68K.

Both Emu68 and Buffee target Amiga 68K CPU requirements. Atari TOS 68K / MacOS 68K campers are concerned about fast 68K compatible R&D having Amiga bias.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:48 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 5:45:12
#92 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

@Hammer

pistorm is emulator. you change you amiga into worth nothing shit.
custom mouse and keyboard connector to rpi running emulator.
this is expensive and stupid beacause amiga mouse and keyboard was copied from pc 40 years ago.


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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 5:53:21
#93 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 787
From: Unknown

i try many scalers. It gives nothing.
decent tv/monitors are two or three times bigger than good old 1084s.
pixels are too big. amiga games looks like c64 games.
amiga games looks good only on CRT.

to have the same pixel size as 30 years ago
resolution have to be changed to 640x480

and of course graphcis conversion is useless waste of time,
people that use LCD which is digital 24 bit device
should use graphics card in amiga.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 6:43:47
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

I'll bite.
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@Hammer

pistorm is emulator. you change you amiga into worth nothing shit.

Wrong. PiStorm is just the gateway adapter board.

Quote:

custom mouse and keyboard connector to rpi running emulator.

Wrong.

With Emu68, C='s Amiga silicon is still connected to the C= Amiga keyboard, mouse, and joystick C= ports.

Emu68 provides CPU translation, C= Amiga Zorro 3 Auto Config compliant Fast RAM, and a subset 68040. library. Broadcom video adapter remained 68K AmigaOS P96 driver.

PowerPC neo-Amigas has a PC-like subsystem that includes legacy X86 VBIOS support.
Look in the mirror.

AmigaOne does NOT include legacy (retro) C= Amiga I/O chips while modern PC UEFI Class 2 still includes support for legacy (retro) IBM PC compatible and VBIOS.

From AmigaOS 4.1 FE Updates from 1 to 6, there are specific subsystem updates for various AmigaOne hardware.

AmigaOne didn't attach the clone Amiga chipset as its Southbridge functions.

A1200 with PiStorm32-Emu68 still includes legacy (retro) C= Amiga I/O chips acting like Southbridge. Audio remained C= Amiga Paula.

Minimig VER 1.97itx with PiStorm-Emu68 still includes cloned legacy (retro) C= Amiga I/O chips like Southbridge. Audio remained C= Amiga Paula clone.

Modern PC UEFI Class 2 still includes support for legacy (retro) IBM PC-compatible functions in Southbridge.

A1222+ has I2S digital audio which originated from foreign 1986-era Philips Semiconductor (taken over by NXP Semiconductors).

Look in the mirror.
Quote:

this is expensive

Wrong, it's low cost.

Quote:

and stupid because amiga mouse and keyboard was copied from pc 40 years ago.

Amiga mouse has two-button operations which Windows 95 followed. Hint: This is against Apple's legal threats. C= Amiga mouse/joystick ports are based on Atari VCS.

A1222+ can connect with modern PC's USB keyboard and mouse standards.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:45 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:01 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 06:52 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 7:23:25
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5355
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
i try many scalers. It gives nothing.
decent tv/monitors are two or three times bigger than good old 1084s.
pixels are too big. amiga games looks like c64 games.
amiga games looks good only on CRT.

to have the same pixel size as 30 years ago
resolution have to be changed to 640x480

and of course graphcis conversion is useless waste of time,
people that use LCD which is digital 24 bit device
should use graphics card in amiga.


1084S's 0.42 mm dot pitch is low-end. The 1084S and most early computer monitors have the slot mask or in-line type which was also commonly used in TV CRTs throughout the 80s.

Read https://blog.johnnovak.net/2022/04/15/achieving-period-correct-graphics-in-personal-computer-emulators-part-1-the-amiga/#phosphor-and-shadow-mask
1084S shadow mask can be emulated on modern flat-screen displays.

When connected to a triad-style dot mask typically used in PC VGA monitors, Amiga-generated 4096 (12-bit palette) color pixel shades are closer to VGA (18-bit palette) instead of EGA or Tandy Graphics Adapter

My recycled VGA CRT monitor for A3000 didn't have an in-line type mask.

Some flat-screen displays have a 6-bit color (18-bit) with dithering instead of 8-bit (24-bit), 10-bit (30-bit), and 12-bit.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:30 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 10:08:08
#96 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
OlafS25 wrote:
@BigD

Bundling licensed software with it makes it even more expensive

It's not about cost, it's about value.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 10:20:28
#97 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@BigD

I think itís pretty clear, that this hardware is not for everyone, ...

That's putting it mildly.

The X5000 is a machine that's not aimed at everyone, but the A1222 was actually supposed to be targeting every Amigan who hadn't bought an X1k or X5k, or a SAM.

You AmigaOS 4.x on PPC apologists are something else: At this point, AAA could deliver you just a bare board and a bag of SMT components and you'd think it's cool that you get to find your own electronics workshop with a big-enough reflow oven, and tweeze the parts on it like it's some 2,500 piece jigsaw puzzle on a rainy Sunday afternoon.

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fishy_fis 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 16:11:19
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2160
From: Australia

Did I misread or is this really going to be in the ballpark of 1000 euro?

Its freaking bizarre.
Seems everyone else is capable of producing low production run hardware, even when more custom than this at much, much cheaper prices, so I can only assume absolute incompetence or huge profit margins are the reason for this.

The age old (in OS4 world) argument of low volume is the reason for the extortionate prices simply doesn't hold up. Yes, vs mainstream there's going to be a considerable premium with low production runs, but *these* prices? No.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 19:26:38
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@agami

Quote:
The X5000 is a machine that's not aimed at everyone, but the A1222 was actually supposed to be targeting every Amigan who hadn't bought an X1k or X5k, or a SAM.


its kind assumed, developers need faster computer then everyone else, X5000 be that faster computer.. thatís of course not true, everyone needs a fast computer not just developers, X5000 is for everyoneÖ. If you have the money.

Generally buying a slow computer is bad idea, unless it offers something different, if so its trad off, sacrifice speed for special features. And thatís exactly what Vampire4 standalone is.

Sam460 and A1222 does not exactly fall in that category, its just less expensive computer, that has some issues. The issues on Sam460 are less of problem in general.

The issues in A1222 are strange, it effects one program but not another. But is totally fixable if you fix it yourself, its not because itís better for developers. Itís because you need some developer skills to recompile and fix it. Unless someone happens to fix it for you. (Actually, nothing wrong with the computer, itís just we are trying to make a CPU do things it was not designed to do.), but because Iím not fortune teller, and donít know to what extent the OS4 core developers will improve FPU emulation, or optimize parts of the OS in order to get better at doing things it was not design to do, its impossible to recommend it, to anyone is not willing to step up to the challenge.

Hope that makes things clear.

Quote:
You AmigaOS 4.x on PPC apologists are something else:


You can go back early announcements about A1222, I was even more critical about it back then, then Iím now, never been major support of the CPU they picked once I found out it had incompatible FPU.

but with all that, the thing is will be no other low cost option with AMC460 CPU being discontinued, thatís the end of the Sam460, what is available now of last batch is last production run of that Computer, so with thatÖ if want a low end AmigaONE computer and you can accept it for what it is, then go ahead buy it A1222.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:27 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 10-Jul-2023 19:37:54
#100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12833
From: Norway

@agami

Quote:
At this point, AAA could deliver you just a bare board and a bag of SMT components and you'd think it's cool that you get to find your own electronics workshop with a big-enough reflow oven, and tweeze the parts on it like it's some 2,500 piece jigsaw puzzle on a rainy Sunday afternoon.


I had to read this twice, what weíre trying to say, it made absolutely no sense to me, what had that to do with AmigaONEís? thatís not how they delivered..

What you are describing is reproductions of A4000 and A1200 computers, or recapping of old Commodore computers, thatís exactly what your describing here. If youíre into that kind thing then knock yourself out, I have never ever, talked shit about it. but thatís what takes to keep old computer running when you have rust and acid damage on your PCB. You can pay person to do that for you for lots of $$$, believe me itís expensive. and end of day computer is slow as was back when it was new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVXg-A4-mac

I never had that kind of nostalgia for Commodore hardware, and I stopped believing in superiority of commodore chipset along time ago. I think better if old games and demos and source was updated to support higher resolutions, and dependency on legacy hardware removed.

If thatís not an option, I say commodore chipset for legacy software only, can make sense, but stuff into a FPGA, and I probably go with the minimum. the stuff thatís slow, and stuff and things that are timing critical, go with a low cost FPGA.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jul-2023 at 09:30 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jul-2023 at 09:21 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Jul-2023 at 07:41 PM.

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