@Thread

How has this become about keyboards? The A1200 keyboard has a certain charm but is evidently quite cheap and literally springy! I prefer reset buttons to three finger salutes and gamepads rather than keyboard/mouse combinations. The A600 Maxi should be an A600 console which means a functionally identical built-in A600 keyboard with all its quirks and limitations IMHO! I hated the A1000 keyboard but I accept that it was actually one of the better built Amiga keyboards with mechanical keys! I still preferred the 'feel' of the A1200 keyboard and also like my industrial SunRace grey keyboard that compliments my CD32.

I think Amigas were generally about aesthetics over hardware function in regards to keyboards, mice and umm...joyboards? The Zipstick is the endearing design of its time and that wasn't made by Commodore. I like the A3000/A4000 keyboards but they weren't the defining feature of the machine! All pinball games allowed you to redefine the controls so unless you were a flight sim guy the A600 allowed you to do everything you wanted to do with its normal layout!

Last edited by BigD on 15-Oct-2024 at 08:36 PM.

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BigD Quote:

How has this become about keyboards? The A1200 keyboard has a certain charm but is evidently quite cheap and literally springy! I prefer reset buttons to three finger salutes and gamepads rather than keyboard/mouse combinations. The A600 Maxi should be an A600 console which means a functionally identical built-in A600 keyboard with all its quirks and limitations IMHO! I hated the A1000 keyboard but I accept that it was actually one of the better built Amiga keyboards with mechanical keys! I still preferred the 'feel' of the A1200 keyboard and also like my industrial SunRace grey keyboard that compliments my CD32.

People are sensitive about their keyboards. The Amiga 1200 keyboard was average which is not bad for a cheap keyboard. Springy is better than mushy like the Amiga 500 keyboard. Big box keyboards varied with some being good while others were mushy but not as bad as Amiga 500 keyboards (even among Amiga 2000 keyboards there are major differences). I have never tried an Amiga 600 keyboard but I don't want to. An A600 Maxi with emulation and an Amiga 600 keyboard layout is an automatic no sale for me. I would rather buy the cheaper Mini and use an external keyboard. The A600GS may even end up being a better value with similar guts to the MIni. I don't want a full size version of the worst Amiga model with the worst keyboard and using cheap emulation. THEA500 Mini lacks value too but at least it is a cheap enough toy. The 68k Amiga is not like a C64 that has limited ability to be scaled up while retaining good compatibility. Many Amiga users have better hardware already (68060-68030 Amigas, Vamp/AC, MiSTer/MiST/FPGA Arcade, PiStorm, Pi 4/5 emulation, WinUAE, A600GS etc.). I believe the low end Amiga market is pretty well saturated by hardware that can barely differentiate itself from the competition. An A600 emulation box with similar features as THEA500 Mini can't increase the price much for just a barely functional keyboard. Even at a 50% price increase over THEA500Mini, an A600 Maxi could flop. I don't wish it but Amiga market opportunities are in enhanced 68k Amigas, especially at a low price. Maybe if the Maxi included a large enough game selection like 100 quality games it would be ok but the higher price could still be a show stopper. Emulation lacks value.

BigD Quote:

I think Amigas were generally about aesthetics over hardware function in regards to keyboards, mice and umm...joyboards? The Zipstick is the endearing design of its time and that wasn't made by Commodore. I like the A3000/A4000 keyboards but they weren't the defining feature of the machine! All pinball games allowed you to redefine the controls so unless you were a flight sim guy the A600 allowed you to do everything you wanted to do with its normal layout!

CBM was not consistent. The tank mouse was bad but the 2 and 3 button pregnant mouse was good. There was also another later mouse that was maybe average. Keyboards varied even for the same model. The CD32 controller was bad which CBM seemed to recognize and planned to replace before they went bankrupt but that was the problem. These controllers and keyboards were used often and made a big impression on customers and reviewers yet CBM was inconsistent and slow to recognize and fix issues.

@BigD @matthey

Going for a Maxi product is going to be tough for RGL. It's hard to see which is the winning strategy:
- Do they go 1:1 with A600 form-factor and keyboard? Not an issue for me as I like the form factor and a truncated keyboard, but appears to be an issue for others.
- Do they compress the the A1200 form-factor and keyboard to the size which is not much larger than the A600? Aesthetically it might be preferred, but the cost will increase and the typing experience would be trash.
- Do they adapt an existing slim/narrow keyboard like the Logitech K780, which is smaller in size, has the num pad, and is actually fine for typing? But then aesthetically it no longer resembles an Amiga, and the costs increase.

Balancing the price on this one is going to be the key challenge. It's going to cost more than the A500 Mini, which is fine, but how much more is too much more? What are the hardware and software value propositions? If the hardware is a lot more powerful, and if it came with apps as well as games, Workbench 3.X, USB, Ethernet, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth support? What would people need to see in the Maxi to pay double the price of the Mini?

And before anyone says that the cost difference between a 75% keyboard and a 100% keyboard is $5, which actually increases the retail price by $15, the costs of packaging and shipping are increased as well. For every cc of product there is an 3x increase in additional shipping, and a 2x increase in additional packaging, so increasing the keyboard size by about 250ml adds another 750ml of shipping costs and 500ml of packaging costs. This is internal shipping, not the last-mile shipping from retailer to customer, so it becomes part of the retail price. If we take all those things into account, and if the packaging is as nice as it was with the A500 Mini, then the extra $5 of keyboard hardware could end up increasing the price to the consumer by $50 or more.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather use that budget on something that has more value.

Maybe they should not bother with a Maxi product when it comes to Amigans. They might be better off with a CD32 replica at 1:1 or 1:1.5. and focus on internal hardware and software capabilities. Make it even more expandable than the OG CD32.

Last edited by agami on 16-Oct-2024 at 01:06 AM.

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@BigD

Which A600 Maxi?
Why we're talking about keyboards? Perhaps because wedged Amigas came with one built in, and if you have a lousy experience with it it reflects badly with the rest...

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@agami

I'd rather have a mini cd32 with a real size external keyboard. What's the use of 1:1 size? You didn't get that size on Megadrive nor SNES minis, what is the use of a full size cd32?

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agami Quote:

Going for a Maxi product is going to be tough for RGL. It's hard to see which is the winning strategy: - Do they go 1:1 with A600 form-factor and keyboard? Not an issue for me as I like the form factor and a truncated keyboard, but appears to be an issue for others. - Do they compress the the A1200 form-factor and keyboard to the size which is not much larger than the A600? Aesthetically it might be preferred, but the cost will increase and the typing experience would be trash. - Do they adapt an existing slim/narrow keyboard like the Logitech K780, which is smaller in size, has the num pad, and is actually fine for typing? But then aesthetically it no longer resembles an Amiga, and the costs increase.

There are already popular and more aesthetically pleasing Amiga 1200 cases and keyboards available.

https://www.a1200.net/amiga-1200-case/

Watch the following video for the machine producing the pieces from molds. There are improvements in the case design and various colors are possible.

Unveiling the 'Asahi' Series - Feudal Japan-inspired Amiga 1200 Cases
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoHhJOBpCzQ

These cases support a standard RPi.

Ultimate Commodore Amiga Emulator Build with Raspberry Pi 4, Kipper 2K Keyboard & A1200.net Case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdXxJ-mrxHM

Internal LEDs are possible which look cool with the transparent cases and would be eye catching on store displays, especially for Christmas and better yet with Amiga Christmas music.

Solas RGB LED controller for the Amiga (Amiga music starting)
https://youtu.be/bykoQt1D_KY?t=118

The problem is the price lacking economies of scale and lack of value of the hardware due to emulation. RGL could probably get the price down some with quantity orders but they can't dominate the Amiga market using emulation. Hardware that wipes out the Amiga competition so economies of scale can be achieved is possible with a real 68k Amiga ASIC SoC. I'm not sure it would be possible to keep the price below $100 USD for an enhanced Amiga 1200 replica/inspired computer but I expect $100-150 USD range is possible. Current build your Amiga 1200 RPi 4 computers may be twice that but would still be competition for the RGL Maxi, especially with inferior Mini guts, a cut down Amiga keyboard and a less popular and aesthetically pleasing case. Of course there are RPi 4s and 5s in cheaper cases with plug in keyboards too. The Cortex-A53 may not be enough performance for the Maxi or A600GS anymore with the poor emulation performance due to large load-to-use stalls and the increasing availability of RPi 4, RPi 5 and PiStorm. The Maxi I/O capabilities need an upgrade from the Mini to remain competitive too.

agami Quote:

Balancing the price on this one is going to be the key challenge. It's going to cost more than the A500 Mini, which is fine, but how much more is too much more? What are the hardware and software value propositions? If the hardware is a lot more powerful, and if it came with apps as well as games, Workbench 3.X, USB, Ethernet, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth support? What would people need to see in the Maxi to pay double the price of the Mini?

Using a RPi 4 for the guts would help a lot and maybe possible with demand and production returning to normal. There is going to be an increased support issue which RGL has tried to minimize as a micro business with more one and done type of products and no skin in the game for building the Amiga platform long term. The situation is a chaotic cluster fuck and its not RGL's fault who have been more respectful of the Amiga than Trevor's perpetual AmigaNOne beyond obvious failure. His fixer Ben deserves credit too but Trevor created him and he can destroy him if he was willing to eliminate the corruption and invest in a legit Amiga business with Michele.

agami Quote:

And before anyone says that the cost difference between a 75% keyboard and a 100% keyboard is $5, which actually increases the retail price by $15, the costs of packaging and shipping are increased as well. For every cc of product there is an 3x increase in additional shipping, and a 2x increase in additional packaging, so increasing the keyboard size by about 250ml adds another 750ml of shipping costs and 500ml of packaging costs. This is internal shipping, not the last-mile shipping from retailer to customer, so it becomes part of the retail price. If we take all those things into account, and if the packaging is as nice as it was with the A500 Mini, then the extra $5 of keyboard hardware could end up increasing the price to the consumer by $50 or more.

CBM was only paying $9 for the A1200 keyboard circa 1993 so the difference between a 75% and 100% keyboard would have been less. Motherboard sizes were larger then but that was CBM's fault for not integrating the 68k and chipset faster into the SoC they planned which would have saved more than cutting down the keyboard. The depth of the case was more of a candidate to reduce although CBM was criticized for not supporting 3.5" hard drives and an internal CD-ROM drive both of which were likely possible with better planning. Personally, I'd pay $5-$10 more for a 90% keyboard or even $15 more for 100% keyboard if the rest of the computer was properly cost reduced with real 68k Amiga ASIC SoC. I'm tired of this cut down bastardized crap. I'm all for aggressively cost reducing quality Amiga hardware. The keyboard, mouse and controllers are an important part of the first impression of a product and should not be sacrificed for an insignificant cost reduction.

agami Quote:

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather use that budget on something that has more value.

With cost reductions where they really count, there is not much sacrifice. It requires significant investment for mass production but do it right or don't do it as all. Right now, the Amiga isn't doing it at all. Emulation and FPGA based hardware are not competitive and only offer a tiny fraction of the value of real hardware. The RPi hardware is a building block being used as embedded solutions everywhere including in Amiga hardware but too many Amiga users don't think it is necessary to create 68k Amiga building blocks.

agami Quote:

Maybe they should not bother with a Maxi product when it comes to Amigans. They might be better off with a CD32 replica at 1:1 or 1:1.5. and focus on internal hardware and software capabilities. Make it even more expandable than the OG CD32.

I'm glad you agree with me which is what I was saying before the keyboard layout tangent.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44991&forum=25&start=200&viewmode=flat&order=0#873438 Quote:

The easiest for keyboards is the CD32 Mini prototype though. https://amigang.com/cd32mini/ The CD32 size could be reduced while still supporting a functional CD-ROM drive. It has to be tempting when RGL already has improved CD32 style controllers. Time is running out to put real hardware inside for the Amiga 40th anniversary.

The CD-32 would be very easy without the CD-ROM drive but a Maxi without it would be criticized for lack of functionality while avoiding the keyboard issue. Is a CD-ROM drive or a keyboard cheaper though? Which offers more value? Are there enough CD32/CDTV games and CD burners still around to make it worthwhile? Could it be used for Sega (Mega Drive) CDs and Neo Geo CDs too?

Last edited by matthey on 16-Oct-2024 at 07:14 PM.

I would love case styled like a CD1200 or a half-a-CD32 that could hold a Pi or a V4SA, and also support an actual CD/DVD drive in the upper half.

Alternatively, I would like an A600 styled device, with built in keyboard, and a CD/DVD drive instead of the floppy drive.

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@BigD

Youtube: Analogue Reveals Details on New N64-Inspired Console

Summary:

- Analog announces the Analog 3D, a reimagined N64 console with 4K resolution.
- Promises 100% compatibility with all original N64 games, regardless of region.
- Utilizes FPGA hardware for accurate emulation, not software.
- Runs on custom 3DOS operating system, compatible with original N64 accessories.
- Features 4 controller ports, built-in Expansion Pak, upscaling to 4K, variable refresh rates, and - CRT modes.
- New controller designed in partnership with 8BitDo, featuring a modern layout and hall effect joystick.
- Retails for $250, pre-orders open October 21st.

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@BigD

Quote:

How has this become about keyboards?

It’s the only thing that would be the difference between the mini and a maxi?

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I'm not sure there's a market for a CD32 replica, regardless of its size/features, besides the Amiga die-hard fan.

I mean a full-sized Amiga is already a hard sell in and for itself: the Amiga 500 is (was) popular, sure, so I can see why people might be interested in a 1:1 replica... but it's also HUGE (there's a reason many people here are speculating a smaller, A600-ish option) and the increased required shelf space - not to mention the actual production costs - would unfortunately translate to higher retail price.

But the CD32 is almost the textbook definition of a flop, it's a nice-to-have feature in a fully featured Amiga nostalgia package but it definitely can't stand on its own, the intended target audience it's just too niche to make it a viable product IMHO.

@Turrican3

What if by a twist of faith you got the stylist non amiga amiga ever, the cdtv+keyboard? That could be scaled down and keep it stylish! :D

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@pixie

Stylish?

I mean I love the Amiga, I really do.

But c'mon, the CDTV is basically a black box that looks like a standard '90s CD player.

Heck even the CD32, albeit uninspired and generic as well, looks more attractive!

@Turrican3

Quote:

But c'mon, the CDTV is basically a black box that looks like a standard '90s CD player.

Precisely, what can be made more intemporal than a monolith! ^^

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pixie Quote:

Youtube: Analogue Reveals Details on New N64-Inspired Console Summary: - Analog announces the Analog 3D, a reimagined N64 console with 4K resolution. - Promises 100% compatibility with all original N64 games, regardless of region. - Utilizes FPGA hardware for accurate emulation, not software. - Runs on custom 3DOS operating system, compatible with original N64 accessories. - Features 4 controller ports, built-in Expansion Pak, upscaling to 4K, variable refresh rates, and - CRT modes. - New controller designed in partnership with 8BitDo, featuring a modern layout and hall effect joystick. - Retails for $250, pre-orders open October 21st. I just hope they make it close enough to the original case so that they can bring the sweet sweet taste of nostalgia, otherwise they may flop...

Analogue reproductions can be counted on for being top quality, having authentic dimensions which work with hardware add-ons and compatibility that rivals the original hardware. From there they add enhancements and I/O modernization for the ultimate hardware experience. The Analogue N64 won't be for everyone at that price but they could sell hundreds of thousands of them. It's actually not a bad price as the 1996 N64 hardware with 3D is more advanced than most 68k 2D hardware and requires larger and faster FPGA(s). The N64 MIPS 64-bit NEC VR4300@93.75MHz is comparable to the Vamp/AC 68080 at near the same clock speed and the ACSA has a higher cost and perhaps more limited 3D performance. The MIPS 64-bit CPU was more a sales gimmick and impediment due to the poor code density than anything and makes the CPU more difficult to simulate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64 Quote:

The console's main microprocessor is a 64-bit NEC VR4300 CPU with a clock rate of 93.75 MHz and a performance of 125 MIPS. Popular Electronics said it had power similar to the Pentium processors found in desktop computers. Except for its narrower 32-bit system bus, the VR4300 retained the computational abilities of the more powerful 64-bit MIPS R4300i, though software rarely took advantage of 64-bit data precision operations. Nintendo 64 games generally used faster and more compact 32-bit data-operations, as these were sufficient to generate 3D-scene data for the console's RSP (Reality Signal Processor) unit. In addition, 32-bit code executes faster and requires less storage space (which is at a premium on the Nintendo 64's cartridges). ... The most graphically demanding Nintendo 64 games on larger 32 or 64 MB cartridges are among the most advanced and detailed of 32- and 64-bit platforms. To maximize the hardware, developers created custom microcode. Nintendo 64 games running on custom microcode benefit from much higher polygon counts and more advanced lighting, animation, physics, and AI routines than its competition.

The N64 suffered from fat code problems as they tried to squeeze out the limited resources of a cartridge based console. While the N64 may have been the first 64-bit CPU console, the successor 2001 GameCube returned to a 32-bit PPC CPU although still using fat RISC architectures but then compact RISC architectures like SuperH and ARM Thumb did not scale up in performance well. Nintendo did eventually partially move to ARM using Thumb ISAs to save space and then fully but only after PPC had been superseded by AArch64 with a moderate code density improvement making 64-bit more practical (some of the Switch OS may continue to use the more compact 32-bit Thumb ISAs).

It may be worthwhile to create an ASIC for the Analogue N64. The 2017 Super NES Classic Edition sold 5.28 million units at $79.99 USD. It had official Nintendo branding but used poor ARM emulation. The similar emulation hardware 2016 NES Classic Edition sold 3.6 million units at $59.99 USD and could play SNES titles after hacking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_Classic_Edition#Hacking Quote:

An anonymous user who previously discovered a means to hack the NES Classic Edition discovered a similar hacking ability to install additional SNES games onto the unit.

The NES and SNES markets are no doubt larger than the N64 market.

year | console | millions sold original | millions sold official Mini
1983 NES 61.91 3.6
1990 SNES 49.10 5.28
1996 N64 32.93 ?

The official NES and Super NES Classic Editions were only scratching the surface of the market in my opinion. They were not bad for emulation as the hardware to be emulated is relatively primitive (6502 family CPU and 2D chipset). They were quick to market money grab toys much like the THEC64 Mini and THEA500 Mini but with official branding. They had minimal enhancements with similar limited number of games included leading to hacking (RGL allows limited capabilities to play other games). Emulation would be more challenging for the N64 due to the significantly more advanced hardware. Nintendo may choose not to make a N64 Mini due to the higher cost of hardware, more challenging problem of being faithful with emulation and smaller market but they likely only go after the Nintendo retro market big fish. Emulation is dead end but FPGA development leaves the option open for a cost reduced ASIC. Analogue will likely take the lower risk option of testing the N64 market with their FPGA hardware and fixing bugs but they should consider an ASIC if they are selling hundreds of thousands of Analogue N64 units. They should consider getting a license from Nintendo for official Nintendo branding and likely could cost reduce the hardware to less than half with an ASIC. The Amiga situation is similar because THEA500 Mini has likely demonstrated hundreds of thousands of sales are possible despite poor ARM emulation, non-functional keyboard, no AmigaOS, relatively high price for a toy/Mini, no Ethernet/WiFi and no Amiga branding. Considering the size of the Amiga market and so many handicaps, THEA500 Mini has been surprisingly successful. The Amiga hardware is easier to emulate than the N64 in standard configuration but it is enhanced Amigas which are pushing the market including CPU performance more like the N64 which is difficult to achieve with cheap ARM CPU cores using 68k emulation and affordable FPGAs. The answer for more performance at a cheaper cost is an ASIC. It's actually more important for the 68k Amiga which allows higher clock speeds while retaining compatibility. A 68060@1GHz-2GHz core with similar caches as an ARM CPU core used for emulation should be roughly 40-80 times better performance than a 68060@100MHz and cost less to produce than a Coretex-A53. It would also use a fraction of the memory and should be lower power than ARM OoO cores. An ASIC wouldn't be used for a quick to market one and done product like many of the Minis but some retro markets may be large enough to be sustainable and growing again. The RPi originally targeted and was appealing to Archimedes/RISC OS retro and educational markets although it clearly benefited from hitting embedded market magic price points. It has been growing every since to 50 million plus RPi units sold and the Archimedes/RISC OS market was smaller than the Amiga market with a tiny fraction of the software, especially games.

Turrican3 Quote:

I'm not sure there's a market for a CD32 replica, regardless of its size/features, besides the Amiga die-hard fan. I mean a full-sized Amiga is already a hard sell in and for itself: the Amiga 500 is (was) popular, sure, so I can see why people might be interested in a 1:1 replica... but it's also HUGE (there's a reason many people here are speculating a smaller, A600-ish option) and the increased required shelf space - not to mention the actual production costs - would unfortunately translate to higher retail price. But the CD32 is almost the textbook definition of a flop, it's a nice-to-have feature in a fully featured Amiga nostalgia package but it definitely can't stand on its own, the intended target audience it's just too niche to make it a viable product IMHO.

The CD32 was less of a flop than the Amiga 600. It was a success in the UK. It barely made it into North America but what Amiga did. There were a few Amiga 1200s here at least but they weren't as popular as big box Amigas. The Amiga 1200 and Amiga 3000 are the best looking Amiga models and a nostalgic Amiga would need to appeal to European markets so the Amiga 1200 is probably the best model for a recreation. Amiga Technologies chose the Amiga 1200 and Amiga 4000T to produce after CBM departed for good reason. Both looked good, had AGA and were more expandable than previous models. AGA Amigas never achieved the sales numbers of the Amiga 500 and Amiga 2000 but they were not pretty or as advanced. Amiga fans wanted more advanced Amigas but CBM was not as competitive at providing value anymore. I expect a 68060 and AGA compatibility are a big draw today because most Amiga fans missed that experience.

The are advantages and disadvantages with using the CD32.

+ easy to produce and practical box without keyboard (more popular for embedded use than wedge)
+ relatively small and could be reduced some
+ CD32 and CDTV compatibility which many Amiga users missed
+ associated with AGA compatibility and more advanced features
+ best Amiga audio with mixing of Paula and CD music
+ best standard Amiga game platform (created Amiga CD32 ISO standard used by emulation)
- not the most popular, recognizable or aesthetically pleasing
- cheap plastic, cheap CD-ROM drive and less than professional look and feel
- "CD" infers CD-ROM but model variations without the CD-ROM would be desirable

There is no successful continuously supported micro-console which a better integrated CD32+ as CBM planned could possibly become. It would need a more '+' than CBM was planning but transistors are much cheaper today and more modern features would be needed.

Changing the name and/or appearance should be considered. "Amiga C32" for console 32-bit would be funny as it would result in an "Amiga C64" if/when moving to 64-bit. I would try to make the left side so there is a screw on shelf for either a cover plate (no CD-ROM drive), top load CD-ROM like CD-32 or front tray load CD-ROM drive for better stacking. Maybe consider moving the LEDs, reset button and headphone jack to the front or side as well. Personally, something like the PS2 looks more professional although it could borrow some aesthetics from the A3000 for the front and could be a little smaller (the PS2 slim does not look as good though).

Eventually an Amiga 1200 like wedge would likely be desirable. The keyboard with language variations would be a pain though. The RPi Foundation produced SBCs, "boxes" and then the RPi 400 wedge for good reason. The Amiga is different as we are in somewhat better shape with the AmigaOS compared to RISC OS, the 68k doesn't have the 26-bit dirty addressing hardware problem of ARM and the Amiga has a lot more software, especially retro games.

Modernizing RISC OS in 2020: is there hope for the ancient ARM OS?
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/73983.html

Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=245392

No more big 32-bit cores for RISC OS from 2022
https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/15704

The AmigaOS and Haiku (originally OpenBeOS) pop up a lot in these conversations about how to modernize and expand the RISC OS user base. Haiku on x86-64 is in the best shape and has more modern software but lacks retro games and retro appeal/nostalgia. RISC OS has abundant and cheap hardware but the OS is in the worst shape and it lacks software. The 68k AmigaOS lacks hardware, is somewhat better off than RISC OS for features but has software. Some improvement is possible while maintaining compatibility as AmigaOS 4 has demonstrated but lack of SMP is an OS killer for a desktop OS. Not necessarily for low end retro, hobbyist and embedded hardware with small core counts though. PPC was too fat for those markets but that is ok as 68k software compatibility is better on a 68k CPU. New 68k hardware wouldn't solve all the Amiga problems but the AmigaOS would shine again on small footprint hardware like RPi hardware which can be ludicrously cheap.

Last edited by matthey on 17-Oct-2024 at 08:34 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 17-Oct-2024 at 08:25 PM.

@matthey

Quote:

The CD32 was less of a flop than the Amiga 600

I am not aware of any A600 sales estimates, but I do know CBM was able to shift a few hundred thousands CD32 console before going bust. So I'd say my point still stands, an hypothetical CD32 micro console is very likely to gain attention from an extremely tiny audience.

An effective strategy leveraging the nostalgia factor would surely dictate the A500 which is the most popular Amiga ever... and as a matter of fact this is exactly what RGL did, but as a 1:1 replica?

Personally I'd go for the A1200 form factor with a huge Amiga label slapped on the box (assuming an agreement over the IP can be reached) and call it a day. Would it be enough to recover the investment? I don't know, but I'd argue chances would be WAY higher than going the CD32 aesthetics route - by the way, I think CD32 compatibility should be added anyway even if the chassis would look like the A1200.

@Turrican3

The A600 form factor reminds people of the A1200 but is cuter an cheaper to produce with a fully functional keyboard. For me THEA500 Mini WAS THECD32 Mini; it could play AGA/CD32 games, came with a CD32 type joypad and had no built in keyboard! Job done, no need to return to that. Have an 060 RTG level ARM emulated Amiga in an A600 case. The form factor is about aesthetics and marketing and on that front the A600 fits the brief for a Maxi Console!

Last edited by BigD on 18-Oct-2024 at 09:12 AM.

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@BigD

Quote:

The A600 form factor reminds people of the A1200 but is cuter an cheaper to produce with a fully functional keyboard

Fair enough regarding the "cheaper" bit. Not sure about the fully functional though, especially because I believe the intended target audience would likely appreciate the numeric pad (if you don't care about that you're probably ok with what the Mini already provides)

@Turrican3

If I'm an ex-Amiga user or a casual 'console' collector then the A600 form factor fits the bill. The num pad is important for flight sims and serious software. I thought 'consoles' were primarily games machines?

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The next will be the Zx Spectrum mini.
New one 2025 can be MSX , Amstrad CPC or the Atari ST.
The last one will be a PC 386/486.

I dont think we will have a new amiga mini model in near future.

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@tlosm

It's on their roadmap for Q1 2025 = near future!

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